Birger Lens Mount Reservations

[Jason Sinclair]

I want an electronic canon mount remote BT and i'll break the warranty for that no matter
But it's better to be silent with this request or i could rush someone to launch on the market a defective item...

or request it in a way that isn't demanding.

 

[Andrew M.]

If I didn't know that a couple reliable 3rd parties that are currently in the process of finishing off the designs of an electronic EF mount that fits within our warranty requirements, I would probably loose sleep over this.

By the time they finish and make it working with most of Canon new lenses our warranty will expire anyway.

Where Birger is the solution in hand.

Plus it is impossible to make Canon working on 52 mm mount when we need about 40 - something without removing the adjustable part or changing adjustable part to be shorter by 10 mm or so.

Actually this would be the best solution to have adjustable part of PL mount bit shorter.

 

[Paolo Tinari]

or request it in a way that isn't demanding.

you mean with no roars or lawsuit menacing or "i'll send you the visit"?

 

[Brian Timmons]

It's great that both parties are on the board closely monitoring the situation but the communication is getting bitter.

The meeting between RED and Birger on 7/1 was a great step but there still seems to be some considerably different Points of View concerning the problem and how to deal with it.

I'm sure RED and Birger know how frustrated it's shared user base is as a result of all of this.

I ask as one of the frustrated that both parties continue more direct and level headed dialog outside of this board with the goal of reaching a timely resolution and agreement to all stated concerns.

I think we (the customer) are all rooting for cooperation than any one point of view.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

you mean with no roars or lawsuit menacing or "i'll send you the visit"?

Lets try reason first...

 

[Jason Sinclair]

It's great that both parties are on the board closely monitoring the situation but the communication is getting bitter.

The meeting between RED and Birger on 7/1 was a great step but there still seems to be some considerably different Points of View concerning the problem and how to deal with it.

I'm sure RED and Birger know how frustrated it's shared user base is as a result of all of this.

I ask as one of the frustrated that both parties continue more direct and level headed dialog outside of this board with the goal of reaching a timely resolution and agreement to all stated concerns.

I think we (the customer) are all rooting for cooperation than any one point of view.

i second that motion

 

[ericyoung]

i second that motion

Too many communications on this issue are being badly worded, decided in haste and taken wrongly by too many overworked, tired insomniacs!

All parties need to take at least a proper full day off, take deep breaths in the open countryside, stay away from the computer, not think about work at all, sleep and eat properly and come back non grouchy and with sleeves rolled up.

There has to be an amicable way of sorting out this situation, and clear refreshed positive minds and bodies will be the place to start.

I'm off to take my own advice and am switching off my computer now for at least a day. See you Tuesday? :biggrin:

 

[Andrew M.]

[Jarred Land] RED swallow the $3000 cost of repair

Now we know how much audio board replacement will cost.
Watch your cables guys, few times you may be lucky but with no current limiting on most of the interfaces there, it could be costly “cut”

 

[Mike Zinner]

Following this threat I feel terribly reminded of the CineForm situation. Both make it look as if RED is not operating in the best interest of their customers.

While their motivation in the CineForm-case is perfectly clear to me (whether I like it or not) - I am still a bit puzzled about this case.

I have installed the Red Nikon mount on my Red One and I can tell you that it was quite a challenge to place the /i interface cable without causing a buckling. I do not have a Birger mount here but I cannot imagine how it could be any more difficult there. Both installations present a risk in my opinion and making one covered by the warranty while the other is not is a bit strange. And the power problem has already been resolved by connecting the the rear of the cam.

Further, Jarred announcing that other vendors joining the mount game is quite cryptic, I not commenting on that.

I still see a chance of both cases getting resolved in the interest of RED's customers - by Erik working out a solution with RED and the RED API offering full speed access to the RedCode RAW data allowing CineForm to keep their 11fps conversion rate (after introducing in-camera RAW-data-encryption in Build 16, wasting CPU time that could have gone into much better use IMHO).

If not ... well, we'll see what happens then Let's hope for the best!

 

[Michael Hastings]

Jarred, thanks for chiming in into this Redusernet's giant thread.

Reading Mike's response tells alot. Evidently, he has chosen every single word extremely carefully in order to explain the urgent need for the EF-mount while trying simultaneously to maintain good relations with Red.

Lauri, I have in fact tried to choose every word carefully. If some think that I have been harsh or a Birger fanboy - they don't know the other things that I know that disturb me and how hard it is to dance around them to focus on specifically defining the issues, and offering possible solutions that could move the process forward. If I can't, over time, repair my relationship with RED it will certainly hurt me financially, but my sense of personal integrity dictates that I support what I think is right.

People here criticize Erik for poor communication - with some justification - but he made it clear a long time ago that his is a small company, with personnel focused on engineering and assembly, where if someone picks up the phone it is usually him, and that he is NOT a boardwatcher. This is RED's/Jarred's board, but you have to have noticed that the responses to issues - whether it is Birger, workflow solutions, or whatever - are typically short, often cryptic, and rarely exploring or clarifying things in a thorough way.

We asked some pretty simple things: A rationale for why removing the front portion of the mount is okay and removing the back portion voids the warranty. And for direction on how to disable/remove the i/data cable as a possible solution.

Jarred's entrance onto the BIRGER THREAD, after 1831 other posts, is a line perpetuating the PR fiction of customer concern and then another vague line pointing us off in the direction of some "soon come" FOURTH party solution.

Frankly, I am disgusted at the lack of integrity with 3rd party vendors.

----------------

Akube was right, I have talked a lot. It takes a lot of time to write these, what I thought were thoughtful posts. Apparently, with regard to RED, it has been a waste. It is probably better to refocus that time and energy on the long overdue update of my website, and listen to my other customers and finish the design of my PRO Aluminum housing for the Sony PVW-EX1.

 

[Ken Willinger]

Here. Jarred sez:

Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

 

[jaadgy akanni]

I wish we could see proof that it was in fact an I-cable related short what really occurred, and not a 232 port problem. This brings me to the theory that perhaps there are many of you RED Nikon mount owners out there with f#%@ked up, pinched I-cables without even knowing it-only that it hasn't been obvious yet 'cause that I-cable from hell is still disabled. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but if Erik says the problem came from the 232 port connection, and that it's been fixed, I tend to believe him.

 

[Jarred Land]

it was a combination of issues directly as a result from improper assembly and overtaxed circuits. Birger is aware of the issue and is in the process of fixing it..

 

[Martin Weiss]

I second the motion ofeveryone taking a Birger break. A few days without wild speculation, finger pointing and frustration venting should help the issue.

Erik working on a solution sounds good. Red knowing about it even better.

 

[David Wilson]

I went to sleep despondent last night thinking I was looking at a screen full of flat vital signs – I could see this dream of owning this remarkable RED tool turning to vapor before my tired eyes; for without what Birger promises the RED revolution is not possible for us.

To us mere mortals what has transpired here over the last week or so is something of a riddle in a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

I woke up to Reduser today more hopeful again. Many thanks to all involved for keeping this hope alive. Michael, none of these great efforts are wasted and Jarred, thanks very much for being here – it helps it helps incomparably to know one is being heard.

 

[Jason Ing]

So the ball is in Erik's court? He fixes the problems and warranty issue goes away? Or if he fixes the problems, he still has to be the one to install it?

 

[A. Bastaki]

... Akube was right, I have talked a lot. It takes a lot of time to write these, what I thought were thoughtful posts. Apparently, with regard to RED, it has been a waste. It is probably better to refocus that time and energy on the long overdue update of my website, and listen to my other customers and finish the design of my PRO Aluminum housing for the Sony PVW-EX1.

you finally understood what i meant... though ure more blunt and thorough than i am.

btw.. i just installed a red nikon mount... lol.

seriously... if any of you guys actually saw what i did today.. you'd be shocked. and if i were red... not only would i void the camera's warranty by removing the back mount.. id void it with removing the pl mount... especially with the way they screwed my pl mount with hex screws. i hear they changed those.

I removed the screws.. i wasnt able to remove 3 though. i ended up washing away the surface.

watched a couple of videos on extracting stuck screws on youtube and headed to the nearest ace hardware store in town. grabbed me a screw extracting kit.

the only way on earth to remove those screws is by getting a machine screw driver.. and litterally drilling out the screws... the screws give off these lovely little very sharp curved metal leftovers and brushed metal powder that so beautifully smear the sensor area. now the thing is... even if you put a tank infront of your sensor.. the brushed metal is so minute and gets stuck anywhere (even if you use air compressors to blow em out.. wana smear your sensor glass with sharp brushed metal.. please use arctic butterfly) you will still get em no matter what u use to blow.

wana hear whats even nicer... the icable is super naked .. keeps jumping out of its hole and can so easily be screwed over by the hole on the right of it. so make sure you tuck it right in properly with a 0.0000001 ml of glue. let the glue dry for 3 hours (you must be covering your sensor during all this).

afterwards.. plug in the nikon mount.. screwed the new star shaped screws.. and voila.

i have to air blow the sensor everytime i change the lens. because the small fragments would still be there.. much less everytime.. but still there.

i honestly think red should revise the whole swapping mount idea. removing any mount should void the warranty.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Akube,

unbelievable.

If you don't know how to do it then just do not even touch it or try to do it in any case.

Sent your camera to RED and probably they would do it with extra charge.

 

[LEON]

AKUBE:" removing any mount should void the warranty".[/QUOTE]

That is the perfect example of negative thinking !
Instead of looking for safe professionnal solutions !

 

[M Hsu]

Akube,
If you don't know how to do it then just do not even touch it or try to do it in any case.

hey guys, akube is dealing with a documented problem; the earlier cameras are known to have issues with locked screws, which is why they don't use hex heads anymore. Aqua had the same problem. For everyone switching to nikon mount, use extreme care not to strip the hex heads.