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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

I've been as forgiving of Erik's communication lapses as anyone because I understood that his was a small shop entering into a whole new market with many, many more customers than he'd ever had to service before, customers of a different sort in a different industry, and that it would be a monumental task to navigate both ongoing product development and the new administrative burdens that product was posing. But this has been going on WELL over a year, plenty long enough to have developed better communication strategies than we're seeing.

Either Erik wants to be the business interacting directly with customers or he doesn't. If he does, that requires personnel or man hours dedicated to communication and customer service. If he doesn't (and that's no big deal since I can easily understand preferring to concentrate on the substantive tasks of engineering), then he should license or sell his technology to a bona fide distributor or 3rd party business that actually answers phones and returns emails. I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to get customer service or warranty work done on a mount under these conditions, nevermind that I ordered the Nikon version, which was given a delivery date of last spring and apparently has yet to even make it to prototype stage.

Delays in the this mount are why I have not taken delivery of my camera, and with RED issuing an ultimatum that I must do so by December 1 or get a refund, I'm all but concluding I should wait for Scarlet and RED's own intelligent Nikon mount, both of which will probably ship before Erik's Nikon mount. I have rooted for Erik all along and remain convinced that he is engineering a fantastic product, but the concerns about customer service and realistic delivery dates are getting too serious to dress up any longer with polite understanding.
 
Elizabeth Lowrey said:
I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to get customer service or warranty work done...
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I can imagine the nightmare.

It'll be another long ass thread called... "Help! Birger Maintenance"

There are 4,000 Red out there. How many mounts have been sold or will be? Can you imagine the line and backlog if something was found out that all the mounts had to be recalled to fix it? Of even just a few of them broken? Only a couple has been reported broken and the owners still haven't gotten their fixed mounts back weeks later.
 
Elizabeth Lowrey said:
But this has been going on WELL over a year, plenty long enough to have developed better communication strategies than we're seeing.

Either Erik wants to be the business interacting directly with customers or he doesn't. If he does, that requires personnel or man hours dedicated to communication and customer service. If he doesn't (and that's no big deal since I can easily understand preferring to concentrate on the substantive tasks of engineering), then he should license or sell his technology to a bona fide distributor or 3rd party business that actually answers phones and returns emails.
I have rooted for Erik all along and remain convinced that he is engineering a fantastic product, but the concerns about customer service and realistic delivery dates are getting too serious to dress up any longer with polite understanding.
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I couldn't have said it better.
 
I took delivery of the Red Nikon/Underdahl mount. Wow, I got it in about a week. I realize it is a dumb mount but it will be sweet to use with the new MFF-1. Until things are worked out this will be my system.
 
Does anyone know what happened with the Canon USM burn out issue -- That frightens the heck out of me even more now that after sales support seems to be just as horrible as pre sales support.

Has Eric publicly stated if a USM motor burns out -- that he will take liability for it?
 
1Dog said:
I took delivery of the Red Nikon/Underdahl mount. Wow, I got it in about a week. I realize it is a dumb mount but it will be sweet to use with the new MFF-1. Until things are worked out this will be my system.
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So I would have to get Red' Nikon mount and another one... Underdahl? Can you explain more and what was the cost. I know Red's Nikon mount is $500.

Gibby said on another thread that he focuses manually without an ff and he has no problems.
 
Lara Stara said:
Does anyone know what happened with the Canon USM burn out issue -- That frightens the heck out of me even more now that after sales support seems to be just as horrible as pre sales support.

Has Eric publicly stated if a USM motor burns out -- that he will take liability for it?
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No, he definitely did not say it.
 
he had the burn out issue figured out long ago... I think.

But i'm cool.. all my lenses are sigmas.
 
Jason Ing said:
So I would have to get Red' Nikon mount and another one... Underdahl? Can you explain more and what was the cost. I know Red's Nikon mount is $500.

Gibby said on another thread that he focuses manually without an ff and he has no problems.
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Douglas Underdahl (oringinally designed the Red Nikon mount), has taken the Red Nikon mount and added a little manual piece to let you use lenses that don't have a iris ring. Its costs you $295. For me it was worth it. That combined with my 3 choice zooms and larger focus rings and the Arri FF that is reversible the lenses will focus with a longer throw and in the right direction.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17820
Nikon G/DX Lens Mount here!
 
Lara Stara said:
Does anyone know what happened with the Canon USM burn out issue -- That frightens the heck out of me even more now that after sales support seems to be just as horrible as pre sales support.

Has Eric publicly stated if a USM motor burns out -- that he will take liability for it?
Click to expand...

this issue was brought up and addressed by eric a few weeks ago. it was actually easy to search for and find because of eric's few posts here compared to most others. check the few pages that follow this link...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6149&page=383
 
I imagine Nov. 13th was a Very Bad Day for Erik. I wonder if he is throwing in the towel, with RED coming out with its own universal interchangeable mount for SCARLET. This really limits the number of mounts that he likely can sell...curious that no one has mentioned this yet...maybe I'm wrong?
 
planet e said:
I imagine Nov. 13th was a Very Bad Day for Erik. I wonder if he is throwing in the towel, with RED coming out with its own universal interchangeable mount for SCARLET. This really limits the number of mounts that he likely can sell...curious that no one has mentioned this yet...maybe I'm wrong?
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You're wrong because Scarlet and EPIC are a year away, there are several thousand R1 out there of which a healthy proportion want smart Canon EF, he has many orders with quite a few fully paid up, he has parts for many mounts already for which he has to pay, not to mention professional pride.

Also, Viewfactor works with it, so even if only the mount turns up, we have other options for FF control.

So poor customer service and delivery and the resultant insults, stress and complaints aside, even if he wanted to give up right now, he can't and won't.

EDIT: from tomorrow I will be a RED One owner, but with Canon lenses I can't use until Birger delivers, so I'm certainly hoping he delivers more working and reliable units soon!
 
planet e said:
I imagine Nov. 13th was a Very Bad Day for Erik. I wonder if he is throwing in the towel, with RED coming out with its own universal interchangeable mount for SCARLET. This really limits the number of mounts that he likely can sell...curious that no one has mentioned this yet...maybe I'm wrong?
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with all the r&d and experience erik has with lens mounts, i doubt that he'll even be affected. realistically, red probably won't have any smart mounts out for 8-12 months. that gives erik time to fulfill all orders and take more orders for his own new auto focusing mounts too.

and as far as red goes, i can almost guarantee that every single camera they announced on the 13th will change in specs, form and offerings by the time they make it to market (maybe for the better). after all, aren't we supposed to count on it.
 
Martin Weiss said:
Also, Birger makes its money from industrial clients, whom he has served for many years.
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I was only talking about the RED mount, I was not implying that his overall business was at risk. I'm sure that he would have expected to sell many more mounts than the number of RED ONEs that are currently in the field or the number that will be sold within the next 8-12 months...

But it is true, we will see, specs may change. Time will tell.
 
planet e said:
I imagine Nov. 13th was a Very Bad Day for Erik. I wonder if he is throwing in the towel, with RED coming out with its own universal interchangeable mount for SCARLET. This really limits the number of mounts that he likely can sell...curious that no one has mentioned this yet...maybe I'm wrong?
Click to expand...
It wasn't really a bad day for Erik but it changes the equation. Certainly, the bulk of cine-style setups may come from RED if only for the simplicity of all from the same vendor, but Scarlet will sell many times the number of REDONEs and sometimes a smaller percentage of a bigger pie ends up as more units and sometimes a more focused clientele that is easier to support. I've been batting some ideas around with Erik on the phone the past few days and I can tell you he's a pretty sharp guy and there are some interesting things coming. As Neil Young said: "Hey, Hey, My, My... there's more to the picture than meets the eye..."

First read my previous post on the implications of four-thirds technology which Birger is already on top of and has some other advantages as well. Then consider the industrial market that is Birger's core business - which had no use for REDONE - but uses modular cameras like the scarlet/epic all the time....and for which Birger already has full remote control of focus and iris via his computer interface.

ericyoung makes some good points also - viewfactor's Impero works with Birger and has some cool possibilities as well, including working with the viewfactor zoom motors also which may be a ways down the development road on the Birger side.
 
Has anyone been in contact with Eric or Amy and heard of any updates in the last day or two? I am seriously considering canceling my order (which has been fully billed) unless I can get some kind of assurance that the mount will be delivered to me by a reasonable deadline, both for the mount and knobs.

I really would like my mount, and am really excited by the potential it offers me, but I'm quickly losing faith in Birger, particularly as of late with Eric's lack of responses to direct communication.

I hate to even suggest it, but perhaps if enough of us gave the ultimate ultimatum, Eric might step up to the plate...
 
I cancelled this morning.

I emailed my cancellation to the three birger engineering email addresses that I have. But I was concerned they were too busy to look at emails. So I called, thinking I would leave a voice mail because that's what I always got. But someone actually picked up and took my cancellation info. She was professional and nice.

And, ironically, I got my quickest reply yet from Birger Engineering via email that my order was cancelled. From Amy of course. (I motion for her to be Chief Operating Officer at Birger Engineering). :)

An amusing aside, in the email, they thanked me ahead of time for my patience in the refund process. lol. I know I'll eventually get it, but I don't think it'll be by "next week". :)

In general, I think it's a good product. And I'm not too far from the front of the line (a birger email stated Oct. 2-8 delivery date). But despite being close enough to seeing the finish line after a very long marathon, I decided that customer service was just as important.

So it looks like the Nikon route for me. Nothing against Nikon, their lenses and the Red One footage look great. But I already bought a 40D and 2 L lenses in anticipation; so this will end up costing me me more. :waaa:

But I realized with a Red Nikon mount, I felt safer. If there is ever a problem with the mount, I have confidence that Red will take care of it pronto.

It was a difficult decision after investing soooo much time into waiting. And it wasn't the Scarlett/Epic news that changed my mind. I'm not getting a Scarlett and I can't afford the upgrade to an Epic. (But I also won't upgrade my sensor. I'll save my upgrade in hope that years from now I might get an Epic FF35 monstro or better. 13+ stops!). But certainly knowing Red will have a variety of mounts (including canon) and Red electronic lenses was a small factor.

And I read in a recent Nikon/Red thread how other users are using and dealing with it. Gibby's posts have been encouraging and helpful. I'm going to try the manual focus and forego the ff in the beginning and then pick up a FF unit from arri or viewfactor. This way I'll also have options if I need to rent cine lenses.

No hard feelings. Although I spoke out in fustration on this thread several times, I don't blame Erik. I did the figuring and made the decisions. Ultimately, it was my choice to hold out and take the gamble.

I hope to hear good things later in the year on this thread.

Good luck and happy shooting!
 
That pretty much sums up my feelings on it as well. I already have the Nikon, and while I don't have PL glass of my own, getting my hands on some is trivial (as I've done it many, many times). I just like the idea of reusing my existing Canon glass (my wife shoots Canon SLR's), but I just don't know how much longer I can comfortably handle knowing that I've paid more than $1000 for a product which I may, realistically, never see in the life of my camera, and if I do see it, it may only last a number of months before I find my way into a Epic, at which point the Birger would either have to be retooled to work with Epic, or I'll have to buy REDs. If I can get my Birger in the next 2 weeks, I think it will be worth it to have it for the next year until Epic comes around. If not, then, it just doesn't make sense to let Erik earn interest on my money...
 
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