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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

birgerEngineer said:
Jim, I reread my email to our common customers from last week, and I must say am disappointed with some of my choices. I could have communicated what I needed to without being disrespectful to you or your company. I thank you for stating publicly that you are comitted to working with my company despite the lack of respect that I showed you. You did not ask for an apology, but I feel, rightfully deserve one. I am truly sorry.
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do not kiss his ass too much.. just an advice.. :bleh:
 
What has been done today?

What has been done today?

Red and Birger. You both know that your customers are drowning here. They need WORKING CAMERAS not DOORSTOPS. We have read on this thread that you are both committed to working this out. What has been done TODAY? Have you been in communication TODAY? Have you discussed the details of moving forward TODAY? I think we (your customers, the ones who bought cameras and some of us just sitting on them while making camera payments) deserve both of you to act with EXTREME PRIORITY to solve this issue. We have asked, begged and pleaded for a solution to this Birger warranty issue for quite some time now. The mounts are now supposedly ready and the electronic problem is supposedly fixed. If it just needs to be checked out by the both of you and signed off on then please, for the sake of your customers, do it NOW. Can we PLEASE get moving on this? So, tell me everyone, am I off base here, or is it OK with everybody for another 2 weeks to go by with no action?
 
I think they heard us pretty clearly a few posts back!! :usd:

PS I do understand the frustration though.
 
All the majors have settled their differences i thinks about time some of you frustrated "customers" should start following line. If this board was filled with less frustrations then red and birgers communication would have been a lot better in fact we probably would have got our mounts months ago. 80% of the posts in this thread are just want want want. This is a three way street. Birger and red are back on line, aqua is there, so... ??? the thing is a lot of customers think if they scream enough they will get what they want...
It just doesn't work like that.
 
supernovafilms said:
All the majors have settled their differences i thinks about time some of you frustrated "customers" should start following line. If this board was filled with less frustrations then red and birgers communication would have been a lot better in fact we probably would have got our mounts months ago. 80% of the posts in this thread are just want want want. This is a three way street. Birger and red are back on line, aqua is there, so... ??? the thing is a lot of customers think if they scream enough they will get what they want...
It just doesn't work like that.
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With respect sir.. I do not agree with this. A lot of times where a company places an issue on their radar can be a direct result of the "volume" of frustration of it's customers.

This thread is over 200 pages long. It's size alone shows a long time loyality and desire to have this product. RED sees this and knows if they don't help Erik get it through, there will be a lot of very upset people.

Also, this "want want want" attitude is not accurate IMHO.. It's more a 'need need need'. For a lot of people, they purchase the camera expecting the birger mount to be their primary solution. Without it, they have a $17,500 door stop, as some have put it.

I do not agree with posts that are insulting or unprofessional. But frustration is a very reasonable response to all this. Shouting from the moutaintop can be a good thing.. Squeaky wheel and all.

And finally, I do not believe for a second that a lack of complaints would have resulted in the mount arriving quicker.. If anything I believe the opposite.

Jay
 
Perhaps you have a point. Perhaps we should just be quite and wait. But what if they have not even started the process of evaluating the changes in the mount and next week rolls around and we are no closer than we are now to a solution? Don't you think that after all the time we have waited, through delay after delay, that it is not too much to ask for us customers to be kept informed as to Biger / Red progress on this problem. Considering how long we have waited . . .
 
supernovafilms said:
All the majors have settled their differences i thinks about time some of you frustrated "customers" should start following line. If this board was filled with less frustrations then red and birgers communication would have been a lot better in fact we probably would have got our mounts months ago. 80% of the posts in this thread are just want want want. This is a three way street. Birger and red are back on line, aqua is there, so... ??? the thing is a lot of customers think if they scream enough they will get what they want...
It just doesn't work like that.
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I'm not sure what the third way of this street is. What do you suggest we do? My RED ONE camera was bought and paid in full about three months ago because of the promise of the Birger mount. You think it's unreasonable for folks like me to "want want want" a way to use our $20,000 camera?
 
it is not too much to ask for us customers to be kept informed as to Biger / Red progress on this problem. Considering how long we have waited . . .
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Get on the phone. Put Fedex on speed dial. Warm up the corporate Jet...What ever it takes.. This has dragged on far enough. Please let's get this show on the road.

your loving door stop owner
 
yes i agree, a forum is not good for this kind of communication... it's too hectic. Hey, and i have sit back and waited too. I've read this whole thread. I just think that part of the problem was the pushing from the customers. I think that forced Erik to make some bad decisions he probably would not normally have done. At the end of the day you can only determine a specific course of action by the results. So has the pushing achieved anything? Has it resulted in the desired outcome this "need , need, need"???

It just creates an atmosphere of frustration which has no outlet so it will just make you angry inside. Is that what you want? I just want the mount and i am not going to loose sleep over it. Life's too short to stress over a little mount when you look at the big picture.

Erik and Red just want to serve us. But its hard to serve people that are constantly harassing you. In fact its downright disrespectful after what these guys have done. I don't think it is just the money for them, i think they are doing something they love and believe they are doing a great thing. They don't deserve any less respect than any other human beings so i think a few customers here could be as much a man as Erik was and bite their pride a bit.

This is not a specific attack on any individuals. I don't know names. It's just a reflection worth considering.
 
well it seems there are some interested parties who would disagree... Wow and only two posts? Thanks for the contribution. (EDIT: the user decided to delete their post, complaining that red should fuck over Erik- what i would do for an ip trace on that)
 
What does Element's entry bode for this Birger situation. Element is probably a year or more out from bring able to deliver the type of system Birger is ready to ship now. I am concerned that Red may feel Element's entry takes the pressure off getting the Birger shipping because people may mistakenly beleive Element has an electronic EOS mount they will be able to get relatively soon. The reality is that Red's customers will be irreperably harmed by another long developement cycle. We have spent over a year worrying over this Birger mount. We got a spectacular hands on demonstration of the working mount complete with ever so sexy remote focus knob at NAB. NAB was almost THREE MONTHS AGO. We (the Red One owners) deserve to be kept infomed as to Red/Birger progress. We deserve some real honest to goodness priority here to get this Birger out the door to let us start making money with this camera.
 
We don't need to harass Erik, or Jarred, or Jim. They get it!

It's not like some "brilliant" post is going to magicly make the situation better, or make it move any quicker.

Getting upset will not convince them to "cough" up information, either.

They have stated their intentions, and it's time for us to have good faith... while they perform their due diligence!

-Thor
 
Thor Wixom said:
We don't need to harass Erik, or Jarred, or Jim. They get it!

It's not like some "brilliant" post is going to magicly make the situation better, or make it move any quicker.

Getting upset will not convince them to "cough" up information, either.

They have stated their intentions, and it's time for us to have good faith... while they perform their due diligence!

-Thor
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True dat! But here's the factoid.......Birger was READY TO SHIP A GAME-CHANGING DEVICE. There was a problem that NEEDED to be addressed (that has happened to me SO many times ARRRRGHHHHHH). Red needs to convince Erik to address problem (which I hope they are and it seems like they are doing) instead of us all hoping that all these other options are just around the corner (which they AREN'T -- or you can smack my sack of marbles).... So we all hope that Erik will make changes -- even if it takes a couple weeks (SUCKS, but gotta be done). And RED will realize that as customers of RED, we believe in his product and want Jannard to give Erik a REAL GOOD OPPORTUNITY to to fix this problem, and we want Erik to give Jannard a REAL GOOD LISTEN, and do what it takes.... and we will all be in business........

That's my Disney World attitude shining through.
 
Erik's on the case. Unfortunately, we all just need to be patient. The only other ways will make the situation worst. Sometimes miracles happen when the negative energy dissipates. If you want to help the situation, help with that.
 
Whaaaaaat?

Whaaaaaat?

What camera number are you Supernova? I was just wondering.

It seems like you're looking at the situation as if eventually this mount would be made but we hurried it out for the worse. that's wrong. the posts on this thread were not trying to snatch it from the womb at 6 months, we are trying to offer some extra incentive to induce labor or c-section this baby out at around 15 months. The kid weighs 25 pounds, it's huge. Everyone of us wants to see its brand new sparkling eyes and help pull the goo off it and present it to momma. we may be forceful, but we're not hasty.

-------Life's too short to stress over a little mount when you look at the big picture.-------

This is like saying: life's too short to worry about having a Camera with a Lense.

Seriously, is that what you think? because I don't know about you but I'm tired of shooting through a pinhole in a piece of cardboard.


supernovafilms said:
yes i agree, a forum is not good for this kind of communication... it's too hectic. Hey, and i have sit back and waited too. I've read this whole thread. I just think that part of the problem was the pushing from the customers. I think that forced Erik to make some bad decisions he probably would not normally have done. At the end of the day you can only determine a specific course of action by the results. So has the pushing achieved anything? Has it resulted in the desired outcome this "need , need, need"???

It just creates an atmosphere of frustration which has no outlet so it will just make you angry inside. Is that what you want? I just want the mount and i am not going to loose sleep over it. Life's too short to stress over a little mount when you look at the big picture.

Erik and Red just want to serve us. But its hard to serve people that are constantly harassing you. In fact its downright disrespectful after what these guys have done. I don't think it is just the money for them, i think they are doing something they love and believe they are doing a great thing. They don't deserve any less respect than any other human beings so i think a few customers here could be as much a man as Erik was and bite their pride a bit.

This is not a specific attack on any individuals. I don't know names. It's just a reflection worth considering.
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Not to take the Switzerland approach here, but I see good points being made all around. Each side has valid points. I encourage everyone to let this get settled behind closed doors. But that's not really why I'm posting.

What I really am curious about is when some of you say your camera is a doorstop right now, do you literally mean you are not shooting with it? I would hope that is not the case, and perhaps it is just exaggeration, but if it is true I think you are missing out. Two interim solutions come to mind. Renting lenses (which isn't possible for everyone due to location) and purchasing a Nikon Mount ($500) and even a really cheap Nikon lens (under $100). When the Birger mount is available, sell the Nikon mount and lens(es). I understand for some people, it's not a matter of just being able to play with the camera, that you need a professional solution in place that allows you to shoot at a high level. But I can't imagine having the camera sit on a shelf. I would find a way to get a lens on there.

Again, people may not be talking literally, so I may be off base here, but it just caught me by surprise.

Anyway, hope all gets worked out on this matter, as I do feel for everyone involved.
 
stevesherrick said:
Again, people may not be talking literally, so I may be off base here, but it just caught me by surprise.
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I think a lot of people heard "two weeks" and believed it. This mount has been "imminent" for months now. I know I decided to buy my Nikon mount after sitting with the camera for a month. I thought I'd use it for a couple weeks and swap to the Birger. Remember the Birger was supposed to ship Dec 15th. And it's been "two weeks away" ever since.

So I'm guessing there are real $20k doorstops out there - and reasonably so. That's why this recent news has so many people frustrated when they calculate the potential delay. If Erik needs a redesign and refab what's that. Two more months?
 
stevesherrick said:
What I really am curious about is when some of you say your camera is a doorstop right now, do you literally mean you are not shooting with it? I would hope that is not the case, and perhaps it is just exaggeration, but if it is true I think you are missing out. Two interim solutions come to mind. Renting lenses (which isn't possible for everyone due to location) and purchasing a Nikon Mount ($500) and even a really cheap Nikon lens (under $100). When the Birger mount is available, sell the Nikon mount and lens(es). I understand for some people, it's not a matter of just being able to play with the camera, that you need a professional solution in place that allows you to shoot at a high level. But I can't imagine having the camera sit on a shelf. I would find a way to get a lens on there.
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I've had my camera since the end of April, and I've never turned it on. I should probably turn it on one of these days, just to make sure it DOES turn on. Maybe I can plug in a microphone and use it as a voice recorder. Now, how to get phantom power for the mic?

I'd have bought an alternate Nikon mount or something, but the Birger mount is just two weeks away so why bother?
 
I want people to know, I'm not trying to downplay the importance of this or any other mount. I know that some committed to this and have faced delays they didn't foresee. So I can understand how you may not want to go out and drop all kinds of money. I just couldn't personally have the camera sitting around. For two reason - curiosity would be killing me. And my bank account would be killing me.

Lowkus, you are a patient man. Even without a lens I would have powered it up, gone through all the menus, learned as much as possible without actually being able to see an image.

Seriously, consider an alternative in the short term if you can. The images you'll capture we'll make it worth the inconvenience of waiting for the Birger. And when it does ship, you'll have some good experience under your belt with the camera.
 
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