Birger Canon Demo @NAB/REDuser party

[Ketch Rossi]

As soon as I get the mount, the girls will be more then happy to move away from still frames and have some fun with moving frames.

Ciao

 

[Andrew Young]

1. When is the darn thing going to ship?

I made my res during the last week of November (don't remember exactly when). Eric said I would have it in 2-3 weeks. Someone else who reserved in 1st week of Dec. was told 4 weeks. I would add a little slide time...

2. Someone above mentioned that some of the lenses didn't work as well. Which lenses didn't work as expected? And what were the problems?

All of the lenses there focused properly with the mount. However, some lenses didn't appear to to have as good internal mechanics, producing breathing and other forms of subtle image shift during focusing. It might have been the 50 1.4 that I sensed this on. The 10-22 was perhaps also not perfect - but totally viable, IMO. The 50 1.2 L and the 17-40 f/4 L performed nicely. I don't remeber what the other lenses were. I should add that the lighting was terrible making impossible to seriously judge the lenses.

Right now the mount adjusts the iris in 1/2 stop increments using up/down buttons. This will change to 1/4, but I'm not sure when. Sounds like the units will be firmware upgradeable.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, someone please bring and test a Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM. This is a very nice and cheap UWA lens, better than Canon's 10-22. I would be very interested to know if it will work with Birger's mount.

Better than the 10-22? How so? :ranting2:

Is there any kind of crop factor at all on the EF-S 10-22mm matched up to RED ONE?

 

[Clint Johnson]

Right now the mount adjusts the iris in 1/2 stop increments using up/down buttons. This will change to 1/4, but I'm not sure when. Sounds like the units will be firmware upgradeable.

Does it snap jump from step to step or is it something that a person can time an aperture rack to? Or would that be aperture taps in this case?

 

[JoshBertrand]

I spoke with Erik about the Nikon mount and he said at the earliest it would be eight weeks or so. He didn't sound too encouraging about it, so that left me wondering if it would materialize or not, meaning Nikon glass might only have the option of being used on a dumb mount.

I spoke with Erik on this matter too and was left feeling a bit discouraged about his commitment to a Nikon version. It is a complex job and he should definitely work on getting the Canon mount running smoothly first. But I hope he doesn't forget how many Nikon customers he has waiting in the wings still. That said the Canon version was silky smooth. Can't wait to start using the Nikon version.

 

[Andrew Young]

Does it snap jump from step to step or is it something that a person can time an aperture rack to? Or would that be aperture taps in this case?

When you push the button it jumps 1/2 stop. Eric said this will be 1/4 soon. Another button throws you open all the way.

Finding a specific aperture will involve lots of counting, until Red enables lens data in display.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Better than the 10-22? How so? :ranting2:

Is there any kind of crop factor at all on the EF-S 10-22mm matched up to RED ONE?

Lol, don't yell at me. I got my info from reading the MTF test results at www.photozone.de. Actually both lenses seem to give fairly similar results, but the Sigma is much cheaper of course.

 

[Frank Weeks]

When you push the button it jumps 1/2 stop. Eric said this will be 1/4 soon. Another button throws you open all the way.

Finding a specific aperture will involve lots of counting, until Red enables lens data in display.

Andrew is correct but to be clear, I think you have to hit two buttons at the same time to go wide open.

BTW, great premiere for the long awaited tool. Eric was great.

Frank Weeks
World Class Productions

 

[wshultz]

What are the "knobs" missing Eric is talking about? Related to the mount or is it the wireless unit he means?

 

[Jim Hoffman]

1. When is the darn thing going to ship? I'm facing a REAL time constraint here.

2. Someone above mentioned that some of the lenses didn't work as well. Which lenses didn't work as expected? And what were the problems?

I really am counting on this. . . I'm dead if it doesn't ship REALLY soon.

Stephen

Things could change but...

1. Eric said the first few are going out next week. Shortly followed by reservation holders from November in the next week - followed by Dec etc. he said all should be delivered in the next 4 weeks providing no snags - I will let him verify but thats how i understood the timeline - which I would look at as a guide and if this messes with your project I would have a backup plan.

2. Ketch got it right for the most part. When we think about what "won't work" we should really focus on the communication between the mount and the lens itself. Eric said if he comes across a lens that doesn't work if he has it in his possession for testing chances are they just need to identify its communication protocol and they can rewrite that into the code. A firmware update is made possible by the bluetooth features of the mount.

 

[MikeHedge]

great meeting everyone there. can't wait til it ships.
more photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=46467434%40N00&q=birger&m=tags

Erik thank you so much. great meeting you. Let me know when I can pay you in full.

 

[Shawn Bannon]

thanks for the photos.

 

[Vincent S]

Ya thanks!

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Great pictures Mike. Thank you!

Is this the final version of the knob? There was talk of it having a standard socket for adding a whip. Has that been scrapped?

 

[Alexander Christ]

Some info about the Canon focus motors that I posted in the legendary "Birger Lens Mount Reservations" thread: The 50mm f/1.4 isn't up to date, it has the old Micro USM instead of the new Ring USM. The 35mm f/2.0 has the AFD that is an "antique" AF-motor. The 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, 135mm f/2.8 softfocus, 50mm f/2.5 macro have AFD and the 50mm f/1.8 has MM (micromotor, is obsolete), I think it is better not to use these lenses.
So it is better to use EF-lenses with Ring USM and the best way to go is with L lenses, much better build quality.

Thanks for the photos Mike!

 

[Clint Johnson]

Great pictures Mike. Thank you!

Is this the final version of the knob? There was talk of it having a standard socket for adding a whip. Has that been scrapped?

Seeing as how the knob looks to be on a half meter long cable... doesn't that work in place of a whip? To work it like a regular knob there would have to be a hard mount for the thing. Maybe one needs to be made for the rods and another with a socket for the Red Arms or to bolt to the Red accessories.

Any idea on the length of the cable that will ship- and if there will be a couple options? It would be handy to have a fifteen centimetre one that is just for hard mount and another longer one for when you want the AC away from the camera? I guess a fifty centimetre one would work for both if it coils up nicely with the option of buying a fifteen centimetre one when the bluetooth controller is available to take over the off camera focus duties.

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this and I plan to borrow or rent as many Canon lenses as I can get my hands on, trying to find the sweet ones.

My only disappointment is with Canon's stepper motors for the aperture. It sounds like, unless the motor can be slowed down as it steps, there can be no racking the aperture with the Canon lenses. We can always exposure bracket the step frame(s) in post for those times when there is no option but it would have been nice if Canon had realized 20 years ago that their still lenses would do double duty on 4K digital cinema cameras. Short sighted fools

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

Anyone ask if there was a way to get distance information out of the lenses? Since the a still camera is doing the measurement and telling the lens to jump to 3.754 feet, the lens must know something.

it would be amazing to be able to pull a tape and turn the dial to a digital readout 3 Feet 2.5 inches and have the lens respond accurately.

Great pics, Mike, wish I was there!!!

 

[Joel Kaye]

here are my quick thoughts:

I had been thinking of canceling my mount since I have the Nikon mount now, but this demo changed my mind. You can make nice smooth focuses with this unit.

Erik took a second to show me the last iteration (a week ago, of the firmware) and it showed a jittery looking focus change if you watched the distance marker on the lens. On the screen this looked fine. But then we all witnessed the current version of the firmware which is silky smooth even if you're watching the lens distance marker.

Now they've been working on Canons for years. Nikons are going to be new to them. He sounded like it could be a good 8 weeks to get the Nikon perhaps looking like the older version of the Canon firmware. It might go faster or it might go slower. There's no reasonable way for him to know and I certainly don't expect him to be able to predict such a thing. But it's not "in the can" as of now (unless I just totally heard him incorrectly).

So... be patient if you're holding out for the Nikon.

As soon as RED adds the lens data capability to the camera then the Birger will show f-stops on the screen. Perhaps focusing distance will come along for the ride but I did not ask.

Currently the software maps the entire focus range to one full rotation of the FF wheel. Later it should be more configurable. At first blush, I kinda like this. I was playing with some of the bigger PL mount lenses at NAB with manual FF units. There's no friggin' way you could pull your own focus on those things because they required so many rotations to travel the length of the lens. Perhaps motorized FF units solve that - but damn. What a pain.

Meanwhile - a modern SLR lens with a very small focus scale maps to one rotation on the Birger making it very usable. It can be a bit sensitive... but I think it makes it possible to pull your own focus if necessary.

It is possible to move the Birger FF wheel faster than the lens can respond. But you really have to whip it from here to there really fast. I personally didn't think it would be an issue.

At least 2 lenses didn't work. One was a Sigma lens AquaVideo brought (I think). Another was an older Canon telephoto. Erik said he'd tested about 20 that did work and he'd work on fixing an lenses that didn't. It's just going to be a matter of testing and reporting.

I wish we had taken a few minutes to set up a decent test frame to rack through, but it was too hectic for that really.

Overall Erik was a very nice guy and patiently repeated himself 8000 times. I'm glad he came out. Thanks Erik!

I think you guys will be happy when you get yours. I never did ask how firmware updates happen. Did anyone else?

 

[Steve Sanacore]

Took my 16-35 2.8II over there and it seemed to work perfectly, although zooming did not hold focus. I believe Erik said he will take care of that in programing the mount for each specific lens and refocusing during the zoom? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Erik was a gentleman and seemed very dedicated to producing a perfect product.

 

[M Olsen]

Any idea on the length of the cable that will ship- and if there will be a couple options? It would be handy to have a fifteen centimetre one that is just for hard mount and another longer one for when you want the AC away from the camera? I guess a fifty centimetre one would work for both if it coils up nicely with the option of buying a fifteen centimetre one when the bluetooth controller is available to take over the off camera focus duties.

I am pretty sure that the order form for the mount gave you an option to order a custom length cable at $125.00 a foot.