Big Change...

[Sanjin Jukic]

brainburst and I have been advocating against 2/3" and for a 16:9 four/thirds size sensor for a lot of reasons but particularly due to a lack of 2/3" lenses that a) are reasonably priced and b) actually could resolve 3K as ALL existing were designed for less than 2K - most much less. Some highend 16mm lenses would handle 3K, but there isn't much out there and a lot more expensive than SLR lenses.

This sensor would be half the size of S35, so cost savings and more DOF but not so much that you couldn't manage it either way (whether you want shallower than 2/3" or greater than S35 for documentary, low light etc.) It could use the same larger pixels as the S35 chips, so better sensitivy/noise capabilities. The big advantage is you have already existing very high quality four thirds lenses from Olympus, Leica, sigma, etc. with a stop faster for the zooms (F2 instead of F2.8) and all were designed for digital sensors vs. those for APS-C and FF slrs which are only recently being upgraded/optimized on certain models.

Frame rates are more a function of the number of pixels so that shouldn't change by just going to the same number of larger pixels on a larger chip base, and it shouldn't really change the custom processing chips they are probably making as (like say Canon's DIGIC chips) since those are probably designed to work across all of the sensor sizes.

I am hoping this is a possibility and some of the internal specs upgrades (like possibly a switch to four/thirds since it is actually just the same technology as the S35 chip with fewer pixels - same micron size and same or easier spacing) may not have to cause a delay because at this point a lot of the lead time is just doing final mechanical design with prototypes to make sure all connectors are in the right place and all of those modules fit together, then ordering all of the parts, connectors (minor changes in the exact type of LEMO needed, not necessarily number of pins but orientation or mounting type or whatever, can add months to the delivery time.) Not to mention getting factory up to speed on final designs, because on these cameras - with much higher anticipated volume, tighter mechanics and probably custom chips, you have to get it perfect before you say GO. You can't go back and make circuit or mechanical changes like you could with the larger, looser, and lower volume REDONE.

If you want to read the entire discussion on four/thirds vs. 2/3" look at my other posts or brainburst's.

Michael,

I was first suggesting to RED 4/3 lenses a long ago,

Also to join Leica Cinema GmbH in Zürich to develop set of fast aspherical cine S35mm lenses.

That with existing Mysterium sensor development would make RED project a real competitive in both main markets:

HIGH = professionals

and

LOW = consumers.

 

[Gary Stone]

Rather, I think it suggests a real lack of confidence on the part of those inside RED as to what direction the market and the underlying technology is headed.

I'm disappointed.

Stephen

or maybe RED is the only company who releases INFORMATION and then LISTENS to it's prospective customers and then implements their suggestions in the product. try to get sony to do that.

just food for thought. and congrats on your projects.

keep on truckin RED.

 

[zak forrest]

i cant believe people are still talking about this

 

[Steven Becket]

New announcement on Dec. 3rd. Everything has changed... just as we promised.

Jim

I guess this can only be a good thing..as mentioned theres bin a breakthrough with the sensor program maybe its un upgrade, I think it may also have something to do with satisfying potential customers. From all the feedback I read I have to be honest there was a quite a large portion of people feeling disappointed, not because they couldn't afford a S35 Scarlet but but because they couldn't afford even the 2/3" interchangeable Scarlet. I believe RED don't like disappointing people and have something up there sleeve.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Maybe the fact that the 13th announcement thread was named "Testing... testing" was not an accident. They're testing how the potential customers react to their plans and making changes.

That's great, IMO, and means that they're really listening, changing and improving things.

It's great. And with every new "Everything changed" plot-point )), we're getting closer and closer to the perfect camera :usd: .

They're getting better, not worse.

So I don't see reasons for disappointment and I'm really excited about the 3th of December.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Don't listen to the naysayers, even if I am one of them. It's a temporary thing. Shock and awe are not always the most comfortable sensations.

But I guess you already knew that.

Engine room, more steam and full speed ahead.

 

[JD Holloway]

Wohoo Black silicon here we come!

"...SiOnyx’s technology could theoretically be integrated into existing semiconductor fabrication lines without much disruption. “You can do everything we’re talking about without extraordinary, Herculean effort, and you can do it in a way that fits with high-volume manufacturing flows,”

Just funning around; but seriously, the first CMOS to the market using this would be earth shaking it's way. It's equivalently insensitive to low nm light (violet/blue) as regular silicon but powers of ten more sensitive over all; thus an advantage in low light. It would make a crazy low light module but might require NDs for even dusk/dawn work without voltage bleeding electrosites/circuitry I would think. Great for in studio though...
Seniors become Babies...
20k becomes a Blonde through a frame.
Lighting by LEDs/flos becomes possible

And you astrophotographers.......

 

[red i wanabe]

:angry03: Dang it jim I have an all-day shoot early in the morning on the 3rd. don't you realize the world revolves around me. Aw how cares I'll skip it it's on dvcam any way.

I'll never look at my sony dino-sr 570/ws the same way again.

 

[Ryan Valle]

Well, if the previous announcement was a "scam," then maybe they'll finally announce the legitimate products

But seriously, I am looking forward to what else can be announced.

 

[red i wanabe]

hey i heard-bout that black silicon. I don't expect it in reds line up yet, but it would be a good sensor upgrade one of these days.

 

[fde101]

That would be a new "black silicon brain"...

Or maybe the big announcement is that they finally figured out how to make the cameras brainless...


Err...


So, if you put a Scarlet and an EPIC together, do you end up with a ScEPtIC?

 

[Mike Bozulich]

Well, you got me last time. Actually, the last TWO times (NAB & Nov. 13th announcements). But not this time. I'm tired of the tease and hype game. I'm checking out from the hype machine until the next announcement. I'll see you all on the other side (Dec 3rd)!

 

[CK Olsen]

good..i think the frustrations come from people just wanting to touch, caress and smell something tangible...other than the RED ONE

I'm doing just fine touching, caressing, and smelling my red one right now...

Honestly... It's kinda like Jim gave us all Supermodels for Christmas, and then on New Years Eve he starts talking about these new "Brazilian" Supermodels he just discovered, and people got frustrated 'cus they wished they'd waited for the Brazilians.

:innocent:

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

I think Nikon had a big announcement planned for November 20th that was pushed to early December. Wonder if the new RED announcement is in any way related? Nikon licensing intelligent mounts to RED for peanuts in order to sell more lenses?

 

[Max Link]

No... smiling here. Just surprised that one of our customers would really want us to start acting grown up.

Jim

If you guys "playing" keeps bringing us surprises like the one we saw on the 13th, I'm all for it...
But if intervalls between revolutionary announcements keep on decreasing like this (Apr '08 - 11-13 - 12-03), you'll be responsible for thousands of RED disciples constantly dozing off at work because they're to hyped up about the newest announcement to sleep at night... :biggrin:

 

[LEON]

Do you REALLY want us to start acting like the "other" companies? Really? Get a few more to share your opinion and we can certainly arrange that.
Jim

NO,NO,NO, disaster, horrible, terrible, beurk !
Noway backward,
thank you !

 

[Alex Mack]

Silly Comment.

Silly Comment.

I just saw the comment made by Stephen Pruitt about being consistent, and I though it was very ignorant. If there is one thing I hate about the big companies and/or politicians, it is that they stick to their phoney talking points, and never admit mistakes or change their ideas in light of new information. I hail RED for its dedication to continuous improvement, and its push to add every bit of value to its products before they release.

This big change is awesome, just what was needed to assuage the many not satisfied by the 13th, and we would never have gotten that from Canon or Sony.

 

[Michele Gavazzeni]

New announcement on Dec. 3rd. Everything has changed... just as we promised.

That's the beauty of RED if Jim sees an opprotunity or has an idea to make his product better... he goes for it!
He is not worried to start again from scratch.

 

[David Wyatt]

Why are some people so upset about things changing? You're saying if Red can now promise even better sensor performance (frame rates, DR etc) you don't want it, you want to stick with the old specs coz you're scared of change lol

 

[Tobias Roediger]

No. I'm just finding it impossible to plan for purchases this way.