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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Big Change...

Jannard said:
The 13th was insignificant...

Jim
Click to expand...

Do you guys ever rest?
stir.gif


I loved the latest configurations! OK...Bring it on!
devilban.gif
 
I speculate it is something related to the sensor. As I can remember Jim told there will be charts and picture taken from the Misterium-X in a not too distant future.

They must have played with it.

I bet on more FPS as announced...

Patrick
 
Maybe RED is going to concentrate on bringing to life their new bright ideas
and build a sales network all around the planet to gain in efficiency.
Because with low price cameras, they won't be able to handle all potential customers.
 
I knew that this was coming.
I'm surprised that the change came so quick.
You must have discovered some crazy shit in the lab :biggrin:

I know that it is for the better, that's why I love you guys.

Bring it on. We can handle it..

Tim
 
David and Ramesh, I also think that that is the only way to go, but doesn't he make it sound even bigger? Though perhaps it is that coupled with audio ports in the brains so as not to open up the door for crap talking. I think the two XLR or at least two mini-XLRs with 48/16 with the audio module being an additional 4 channels full XLR... would be sweet if they could add a possessor that somehow linked up in SLI with the existing one and allowed something crazy like 192/24... and perhaps a mineral bath with a radiator for cooling system, and add some neon to that then call it the iScarlet -the-shit-out-of-you... hahaha... ok, sorry about that one... just laughing my butt off here gentelmen, don't mean any distespect to anyone just kiddin' around

I always thought that that was why Santa dressed in Red :)

enough beer and senseless posting for me for one night, glad to be enjoying this with you all... let's see what you were up to all along... this better be all of it... it must already be hard enough to live up to the level of "better" let alone "insignificant"... but you delivered Red One and you are likely on your way to do it again which for camera people all over the world is a great thing and you do know how to run a company... all the best to everyone and to the Red guys for the Holidays.
 
Jannard said:
New announcement on Dec. 3rd. Everything has changed... just as we promised. :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Now it's coming up a TRAILER.

Jannard said:
Good news...

Jim
Click to expand...

You'll get the best stuff from the November 13th TEASER and even more...

Jannard said:
Wish lists not invited...

Jim
Click to expand...

Guys, back now to the real world (or mostly related to the world economic situation)...

Jannard said:
The 13th was insignificant...

Jim
Click to expand...

Terribly sorry but it was just a TEASER...
 
Peter Majtan said:
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but at this point the only BIG CHANGE I could imagine to warrant such a announcement would be the change to the delivery schedule. Jim, you had me at 2/3" 3K-res 120 FPS fixed lens - regardless of the price. Anything better is fine, but I would opt for sooner...

I really admire what You guys are doing, and I don't want to spoil the fun You must be having in Lake Forrest... Maybe just dedicate a small unit to get the basic Scarlet with the fixed lens out the door ASAP, while You guys keep ever improving the Battlestar Jannardica DSMC concept...

What ever You are cooking - it can't be out soon enough...

You know I am with You all the way - no matter what...

:) Peter
Click to expand...

hear hear! :biggrin:
 
OK, here's an earnest guess...

FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM:
RED is caught -- ONE users want their camera to still be a good deal for 17k. RED's new technology will blow the original ONE out of the water for way cheaper. The upper end is Sci Fi stuff -- nobody is going to compare the 645 or 617 to the ONE, but the reality is that the low end of their new product line is a big threat to the original early adopters.

THE WRONG SOLUTION:
Crippling the new tech to make the ONE users happy. This will make prospective Scarlet buyers unhappy and, in the long run, hurt RED's market share. Why be less competitive than you can be?

THE RIGHT SOLUTION:
Incredible products for cheaper than anyone thought possible. Insane (perhaps impossible?) idea:

Scrap the 2/3" sensor altogether. Enjoy economies of scale by fabricating ONLY a huge batch of identical S35 sensors to use in all the "low end" models. It would be the exact chip described in the Nov 13th S35 Scarlet/Epic but instead of offering only two flavours of brain for this sensor, offer a variety:

-2k version -- "low end" product called Scarlet with low data processing requirements thanks to 2k and Redcode 42. Incredible low light performance due to low recorded resolution per unit of light gathering area. Cinematic depth of field. $3000 brain. The ultimate HVX/EX1/Varicam/F900 killer.

-3k version -- beefed up Scarlet with 3k and Redcode 42 putting greater demands on data processor. $6000 brain. Pick this one for indie features.

-4k version -- very similar to a Mysterium X-upgraded ONE, but with Redcode 225 and costing $18,000. Feature film workhorse. In fact, call it the ONE TWO.

-5k version -- the Nov 13th bottom end Epic with 5k Redcode 225 data processing. $28,000. High end VFX features, IMAX.

So, they'd all have the same sensor (to save manufacturing costs), but each one would have data processing cores tailored to the exact resolution specifications of each camera. The size of the chip would guarantee cinematic control over depth of field in every model, and the size of the pixels would ensure that no model should have inferior ISO. Lenses would be fully interchangeable among all models thanks to identical chip size, and ditto lens mounts. No model would be crippled in terms of frame rate capabilities, because there would be no more reason to mollify ONE users -- a Mysterium X upgraded ONE would lose almost none of its value.

And, crucially, RED's uncompromising quality across the entire product lineup would blow every other digital cinema division sky high.

OK, I may be talking fantasy, but... dare to dream?
 
Even though the previous announcement was in line with what I expected was coming, the magnitude and scope of the announcement took me completely by surprise! I was in awe by the whole thing. I can't possibly imagine JIM recreating that feeling in me again. But who knows...

Xoce
 
Hi,

RED One owners should not be worried, with the prices they quote for rental most will be in profit in 3-6 months so. If you take delivery of a RED One today they should still be happy, & in profit long before the birth of Scarlet. Computer technology has a life of 18 months, why should a bleeding edge digital camera be any different?

Stephen

REDneck said:
OK, here's an earnest guess...

FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM:
RED is caught -- ONE users want their camera to still be a good deal for 17k. RED's new technology will blow the original ONE out of the water for way cheaper. The upper end is Sci Fi stuff -- nobody is going to compare the 645 or 617 to the ONE, but the reality is that the low end of their new product line is a big threat to the original early adopters.

THE WRONG SOLUTION:
Crippling the new tech to make the ONE users happy. This will make prospective Scarlet buyers unhappy and, in the long run, hurt RED's market share. Why be less competitive than you can be?

THE RIGHT SOLUTION:
Incredible products for cheaper than anyone thought possible. Insane (perhaps impossible?) idea:

Scrap the 2/3" sensor altogether. Enjoy economies of scale by fabricating ONLY a huge batch of identical S35 sensors to use in all the "low end" models. It would be the exact chip described in the Nov 13th S35 Scarlet/Epic but instead of offering only two flavours of brain for this sensor, offer a variety:

-2k version -- "low end" product called Scarlet with low data processing requirements thanks to 2k and Redcode 42. Incredible low light performance due to low recorded resolution per unit of light gathering area. Cinematic depth of field. $3000 brain. The ultimate HVX/EX1/Varicam/F900 killer.

-3k version -- beefed up Scarlet with 3k and Redcode 42 putting greater demands on data processor. $6000 brain. Pick this one for indie features.

-4k version -- very similar to a Mysterium X-upgraded ONE, but with Redcode 225 and costing $18,000. Feature film workhorse. In fact, call it the ONE TWO.

-5k version -- the Nov 13th bottom end Epic with 5k Redcode 225 data processing. $28,000. High end VFX features, IMAX.

So, they'd all have the same sensor (to save manufacturing costs), but each one would have data processing cores tailored to the exact resolution specifications of each camera. The size of the chip would guarantee cinematic control over depth of field in every model, and the size of the pixels would ensure that no model should have inferior ISO. Lenses would be fully interchangeable among all models thanks to identical chip size, and ditto lens mounts. No model would be crippled in terms of frame rate capabilities, because there would be no more reason to mollify ONE users -- a Mysterium X upgraded ONE would lose almost none of its value.

And, crucially, RED's uncompromising quality across the entire product lineup would blow every other digital cinema division sky high.

OK, I may be talking fantasy, but... dare to dream?
Click to expand...
 
It really doesn't matter to me how many new sensors you're going to have or how many cameras your planning.

1. I'd really like to see something happening with 4k delivery.

a.) Make and ship a 4k projecter that isn't an arm and a leg.
b.) Get Red Ray out there.

I saw digital 2k projection. Blech! Actually, BLECH PTUI! I want to see my 4k stuff in 4k. At this point it doesn't matter if you have a thousand sensors with a thousand brains.

Also since you didn't enter the 4k display market we're still drumming our fingers waiting for the industry to get with the program. How many years will go by until we have 4k displays and ones that aren't priced like they're made of diamonds either.

The cameras I'm sure will all be wonderful and I'll be in for a few at least but until the circle is complete from recording to display in 4k there's a hole out there you could drive a train through sideways. I'm referring to affordable projection as Red Ray is going to be a killer of a player solution.
 
I'm not speaking only of a "be nice to the ONE owners" solution... I'm talking about a genuine bombshell "everyone is happy" scenario.

Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

RED One owners should not be worried, with the prices they quote for rental most will be in profit in 3-6 months so. If you take delivery of a RED One today they should still be happy, & in profit long before the birth of Scarlet. Computer technology has a life of 18 months, why should a bleeding edge digital camera be any different?

Stephen
Click to expand...
 
All scarlet system cameras are rumored to be carved entirely from a single piece of aluminum...

You know Jim, for a guy I've never met, you sure make my life interesting.
 
Guys, notice one thing - unlike the November 13th announcement - there is no "IN PROCESS OF CHANGE" on the EPIC, nor the SCARLET links on red.com. So the announcement has nothing to do with any design changes to the DSMC system. That only leaves the tech. specs, something related to Red One, something about the company itself, or just a completely new product not yet mentioned - in order to warrant the "13 was insignificant" comment...

Just my 2 cents...

:) Peter
 
Edward Mendoza said:
They're going to announce that they've monopolized the entire industry--buying out all the top manufacturers!!

...and that the profits they make off the Ones, Scarlets, and Epics will be used for a nationwide economic bailout, ultimately leading to some sort of Nobel Prize for Jannard and Co.....

...and that they'll be releasing the Pink One....:ohmy:
Click to expand...

njvan said:
Only after a name change!
Click to expand...


Flamingo!
 
REDneck said:
Scrap the 2/3" sensor altogether. Enjoy economies of scale by fabricating ONLY a huge batch of identical S35 sensors to use in all the "low end" models. It would be the exact chip described in the Nov 13th S35 Scarlet/Epic but instead of offering only two flavours of brain for this sensor, offer a variety:
Click to expand...

Please don't scrap the 2/3" version. Some of us will actually prefer this over S35 for a host of reasons, including getting adequate depth of field under low light conditions and high frame rates at modest cost.

2/3" has its own market just as 16mm film does. Nobody talks about scrapping 16mm.
 
I see this as a very clever reaction personally. I do love the smart open minded philosophy behind Red, a key for a winning and creative spirit...

My hope is Red will announce a new brain brain between Epic and Scarlet, a modular R1 brain , kind of Scarlet with high frame rate.
And if we could have this for early summer, you guys are just fucking rock'n roll stars!

v*
 
Super8 said:
because at some point you want to put something out there......
then keep on making it better.

example

DVX100
DVX100A
DVX100B

EX1
EX2
EX3

...far inferior examples, but each revision had improvements....


I know RED can put out some amazing products...I just don't want to see delivery dates pushed back just becuase technology can be improved. That is a matter of fact...we will always be able to make things better and cheaper...
Click to expand...

You must be jocking of course??

I just wish you'd make good use of emoticons, because for a sec I thought you were serious.:waaa:

Emmanuel
 
David Rasberry said:
Please don't scrap the 2/3" version. Some of us will actually prefer this over S35 for a host of reasons, including getting adequate depth of field under low light conditions and high frame rates at modest cost.

2/3" has its own market just as 16mm film does. Nobody talks about scrapping 16mm.
Click to expand...

brainburst and I have been advocating against 2/3" and for a 16:9 four/thirds size sensor for a lot of reasons but particularly due to a lack of 2/3" lenses that a) are reasonably priced and b) actually could resolve 3K as ALL existing were designed for less than 2K - most much less. Some highend 16mm lenses would handle 3K, but there isn't much out there and a lot more expensive than SLR lenses.

This sensor would be half the size of S35, so cost savings and more DOF but not so much that you couldn't manage it either way (whether you want shallower than 2/3" or greater than S35 for documentary, low light etc.) It could use the same larger pixels as the S35 chips, so better sensitivy/noise capabilities. The big advantage is you have already existing very high quality four thirds lenses from Olympus, Leica, sigma, etc. with a stop faster for the zooms (F2 instead of F2.8) and all were designed for digital sensors vs. those for APS-C and FF slrs which are only recently being upgraded/optimized on certain models.

Frame rates are more a function of the number of pixels so that shouldn't change by just going to the same number of larger pixels on a larger chip base, and it shouldn't really change the custom processing chips they are probably making as (like say Canon's DIGIC chips) since those are probably designed to work across all of the sensor sizes.

I am hoping this is a possibility and some of the internal specs upgrades (like possibly a switch to four/thirds since it is actually just the same technology as the S35 chip with fewer pixels - same micron size and same or easier spacing) may not have to cause a delay because at this point a lot of the lead time is just doing final mechanical design with prototypes to make sure all connectors are in the right place and all of those modules fit together, then ordering all of the parts, connectors (minor changes in the exact type of LEMO needed, not necessarily number of pins but orientation or mounting type or whatever, can add months to the delivery time.) Not to mention getting factory up to speed on final designs, because on these cameras - with much higher anticipated volume, tighter mechanics and probably custom chips, you have to get it perfect before you say GO. You can't go back and make circuit or mechanical changes like you could with the larger, looser, and lower volume REDONE.

If you want to read the entire discussion on four/thirds vs. 2/3" look at my other posts or brainburst's.
 
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