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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid Artist Control versus Tangent Wave

Christoffer Glans

Christoffer Glans

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I've read about the ergonomics of the Artist Control and that it's better then the Wave. Currently I have the Wave and I completely agree that it's poorly designed to say the least, both in quality and ergonomics.

But I'm a guy that needs functionality, reliability and precision more then anything and I haven't read anything about that when comparing the two. I've tried the Artist Control once but didn't have time to really get into it.

So, comparing the two, which one is really the best? Which has the best precision of the trackballs and controls while maintaining the least "lag"? I'm very sensitive to lag.
Which one has the best reliability over updates? Etc.
 
I find in order of preference:

1. Tangent Elements
2. Artist Control
3. Wave

This is more of an overall sense of direct feel and performance, size of buttons, ease of use, etc.

Michael
 
Thanks Michael, anyone else who feels the same?
 
MichaelP said:
I find in order of preference:

1. Tangent Elements
2. Artist Control
3. Wave

This is more of an overall sense of direct feel and performance, size of buttons, ease of use, etc.

Michael
Click to expand...

+1

Had the Artist, sold it for the full Element panel.

IMG_0253.JPG
 
Matt Gottshalk said:
+1

Had the Artist, sold it for the full Element panel.

IMG_0253.JPG
Click to expand...
Bought the Tangent Wave, sold it, bought MC Color, sold it, got Element, sold it, bought MC Color again. Very good visual demo in your picture. How do you grade with the keyboard in a way? There is no place to rest your wrists with the keyboard in the way. With MC Color you just tuck the keyboard under the panel.
1. Resolve doesn't release the control of Element, even if it's not running. If you want to use the panel with something else, like RCX, then you must deselect it in Resolve and then again re-selected when back in Resolve, every time.
2. MC color is networkable, meaning you can just connect it to a network hub and it is available to any other computer on the network. I use mine between Mac and PC, no plugging and unplugging.
3. At a third of a price I found, that I'm more productive with MC Color, than with Element, thanks to woeful panel mapping. All panel mappings in Resolve with the exception of it's own panel is terrible. I just found MC Color mapping a bit better, that Element, but that is my personal opinion.
4. Right now MC Color is more widely adapted by the software manufacturers. I use mine with Resolve, RCX, Baselight, Nucoda Fuse, Smoke. It may change in the future, as Element arguably is the best panel made by he third party manufacturer.
 
I realize this is the DaVinci forum, but one thing to keep in mind is that only the Color works with Avid software.
 
I would never grade in Avid :)
What's the price difference between Elements and Avid Color?

...and what is the difference between Artist Color and MC color?
 
jake blackstone said:
Bought the Tangent Wave, sold it, bought MC Color, sold it, got Element, sold it, bought MC Color again. Very good visual demo in your picture. How do you grade with the keyboard in a way? There is no place to rest your wrists with the keyboard in the way. With MC Color you just tuck the keyboard under the panel.
1. Resolve doesn't release the control of Element, even if it's not running. If you want to use the panel with something else, like RCX, then you must deselect it in Resolve and then again re-selected when back in Resolve, every time.
2. MC color is networkable, meaning you can just connect it to a network hub and it is available to any other computer on the network. I use mine between Mac and PC, no plugging and unplugging.
3. At a third of a price I found, that I'm more productive with MC Color, than with Element, thanks to woeful panel mapping. All panel mappings in Resolve with the exception of it's own panel is terrible. I just found MC Color mapping a bit better, that Element, but that is my personal opinion.
4. Right now MC Color is more widely adapted by the software manufacturers. I use mine with Resolve, RCX, Baselight, Nucoda Fuse, Smoke. It may change in the future, as Element arguably is the best panel made by he third party manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Nice breakdown, Jake. Do you have a photo of your keyboard tucked under? Just by looking, I can't see any risers or a platform that would allow you to do this, but that's a really nice advantage.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I would never grade in Avid :)
What's the price difference between Elements and Avid Color?

...and what is the difference between Artist Color and MC color?
Click to expand...

Big mistake.
The new Baselight Editions for Avid on Mac and upcoming PC version is awesome.
No difference, Avid just re-named it, when they bought the company.
 
I wish Avid would extend the relational color correction to AVX since the whole technology concept really has nothing to do with color correction specifically, but about metadata and the relation between shots based on any desired filed for navigation or FX application, etc. If that were to happen, you would have the best of both Baselight image creative control and Avid's metadata management in the timeline.

Michael
 
That's the beauty of FilmLight's approach to metadata management. They carry all relevant metadata with created XML from edit (Avid or FCP) to VFX (Nuke and may be soon Flame) to grade (Baselight) without ever needing to bake in grades. But at the same time all grades are available and editable along the way to any user of Baselight plugin or actual Baselight. I just saw Baselight open a massive EXR from NUKE with all 50 or so layers, grade any of them and send it back to NUKE, all without the need to render. FilmLight silently laying out the foundation for the most advanced workflow in industry.
And now back to the subject of this thread.
 
I agree with the color metadata within Baselight and its ability to move that in and out of systems. I was referring to the fact that I can do a complex color effect with Baselight in Media Composer but have to manually apply it to other related shots based on whatever criteria as available with the Symphony color correction. That relational metadata capability should be made available to any AVX or audio plug-in as needed by the user during the creative process.

Michael
 
It sounds good in theory, but in today's practice it rarely works. Windows need to be tracked, keying need to be adjusted and exposure and color temperature changes even for the same scenes for one reason or another. It may make sense once the color matching technology is perfected. I had seen this tech demo'ed by FilmLight and it is pretty scary. Right now it is used for left/right eye matching, but the same tech can be used for standard grading. It can actually not just match two shots color-wise but it can even apply the necessary shading across the shot. Once shots are matched, they are absolutely perfect. I couldn't do it manually, if I tried:(
 
I'm sure I'm going to be crucified for saying this. Jake have you tried the color matching features inside MC/Symphony? They are actually pretty impressive, IMVHO.
 
Peter Moretti said:
I'm sure I'm going to be crucified for saying this. Jake have you tried the color matching features inside MC/Symphony? They are actually pretty impressive, IMVHO.
Click to expand...

I haven't. But there are many tools, that do that, such as in FCPX or Smoke. But they all do just very basic color matching. What Baselight does is on another level altogether. I'm sorry to say it, but I don't think it's humanly possible:-(
 
Jake and I are speaking on parallel lines here. Jake speaks to color matching of images based on pixel to pixel and image science color. I am referring to once a shot has been colored and the shot two events down comes from the same scene/take only seconds later automatically get the same same color correction or subset of desired parameters as a lot of shapes and such may not apply unless a static shot. That is what I am referring to with Symphiny's relational color correction. And having both would be ideal.

Michael
 
Just switched to the MC Color last night. Any of you guys using Controller Mate with it or XKeys as an add-on? Curious where you feel it is lacking in custom keys and how to fill those gaps.
 
What is most important to you--cost, speed, or precision?

The Wave gets the job done but sturdy she is not. Reaching for the controls above the wheels can introduce strain. But it is affordable and easiest to find used.

The MC Color might have nice mapping for Resolve, but the wheels feel like 1990s Mac trackballs. Very loosey goosey. I have less than an hour experience with it but it just doesn't have the best "feel."
On the other hand the Resolve mapping is halfway intelligent and therefore you might be able to work faster, if that is most important to you. (Jake I can see why it would be in remote grading!)

The Element gives off a feeling of calm control. The weight or "heft" of the lift/gamma/gain wheels allows for very precise and subtle adjustments. The knob controls are well designed too; you can gently roll off the value to where you like it, or tap to revert to default. Downsides are the audible "clicks" made by the buttons (doesn't bother me at all) and the unfortunate mapping. It is really not that bad. For me the keyboard shortcuts fill in for the gaps in the panel keymap.

Not sure I would buy a control surface before NAB, with do-it-at-home color becoming such a meaty industry, and only three real contenders out there. There has got to be something better coming down the pipe.
 
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