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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Attitude adjustment...

Epic-X $19,000

Reading this thread...

PRICELESS!

Some of you guys are funny. Some of you don't even mean to be. =-)
 
Michael Millchamp, bear in mind they can probably sell at least 10x more cameras at $20k than at $35k, and those people may well be talented, too. I don't think there is a direct correlation between talent and the amount of money you have, when you are trying to start out. True, the more talented you are, the more you will make, but that's in the future for a lot of people dreaming of Epics and Scarlets.

D
 
Hurricane Sandy gave me a bigger attitude adjustment than this thread ever could.

Its time to eject from these forums now. Nothing more to be said. Be safe all.
 
Bill Anderson said:
"It's too much" "it's not enough" "It saved my life" "It's spoiling my life" "I didn't see this coming" "this was visible from space" "every idiot will own my camera" "you'd be an idiot to not own this camera" "you deserve to get one in the head!" " I just got one in the mail!" "get a brain" " I just got a brain!" ( :
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LOL - classic!
 
Adam Welch said:
I think one problem with modern forms of communicating..ie texting, forums, blogs...people's comments or views can be misconstrued and taken out of context.
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Completely. It is nearly impossible to express the nuance, and cover all the bases in every post...unless you are just super selective about the comments you make. And what's worse, something you wrote in a thread 50 pages prior, is completely forgotten or not seen. You're constantly trying to justify statements, and/or simply repeating yourself.

But if you don't write, then you miss out on contributing -- like me. I feel a tinge of guilt about that. 400 posts since '07. Com'on, Eryc. You guys see I can be verbose. Haha. Problem is, I also can't afford to become completely consumed either. :)

Eryc
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Heh, I know Jim has created more jobs than Obama!
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This is the one of the best threads ever. There are some great arguments in both directions; a ton of very thoughtful and intelligent considerations.

I haven't been able to sleep much lately (combination of flu and contemplation), and this is something I was totally thinking this morning. Jim and company have literally revolutionized content creation, and put the power of IP into the hands of the artists. While most people are waiting for Superman to drop down and grant jobs to the masses, a small cache of individuals have been out creating those mythical jobs. In more ways than one. As filmmakers, we have some of the greatest, most powerful fishing rods of all time. Use them to feed yourself. Pick what you want, luckily there are options now. But as I have said, I will shoot RED whenever possible (given the demands/constraints of the production). My support is based as much on the product and its capabilities, as the philosophy that led to its creation.

For me, the goal is to continue honing my storytelling, business and legal skills, as much as possible. The future we are headed into will not allow anyone to play without those skills.

Jim is dope. Period. Last I checked, he did not need to do any of this. And yeah, I would defend this guy anytime...lesser people get more everyday...why shouldn't he be entitled to a little support?
 
Bill Anderson said:
"It's too much" "it's not enough" "It saved my life" "It's spoiling my life" "I didn't see this coming" "this was visible from space" "every idiot will own my camera" "you'd be an idiot to not own this camera" "you deserve to get one in the head!" " I just got one in the mail!" "get a brain" " I just got a brain!" ( :
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Yep as Terry said LOL, great sum up of this 75 page thread.
 
Better to be a mammal than a dinosaur.

Better to be a mammal than a dinosaur.

1. A tsunami hits parts suppliers, Epic prices go up.

2. Time passes, vendors recover, Red increases manufacturing efficiency, competition builds.

3. Enthusiastic Red founder, previously builder of a billion dollar company, responds with price adjustments favoring customers.

Other than the tsunami, if you couldn't see these events coming at some point, you don't read enough.
 
Sorry if this has been brought up before in the previous 76 pages, but speaking of technology.. any word on price reduction for the RED Rocket cards?
 
Morris Bossers said:
Dear customer:
The product you like to buy will be literally worthless within a few months.
If you buy now, you will thus lose over tens of thousands of dollars.
Any product you buy from us won't devaluate over time: we as a company will make it devaluate overnight !
Your clients won't hire your product for the amount you originally calculated, so your product won't take the normal three years to break even, but about 10 years.
Errr... hang on: ten years ? I'm sorry...: of course you aren't able to use this product for ten years: it will be worthless within a few months.

But, dear customer: that's GOOD news !!!
It means that anyone.... (did you get that: ANYONE) can afford the product you're looking at within a few months !
They won't have to hire the product from your company ! Isn't that great ?!?
Don't worry; if you're clients are stupid enough to buy from us, we'll screw them over the same way we'll do you !
We'll make them pay thousands of dollars for upgrades and than...... drop the prices !!! That'll show them :)
What's that you say ? You won't buy from us ??
But it's a great product ?!
You "don't like losing that amount of money and clients" ?!?
But it's a great product ???
Haven't you heard that other companies do the same ?
Whenever a company brings out a new product, the former product is devaluated.
Ermmm: No we don't have a revolutionary new product per se... we just thought it would be neat to start devaluating our products anyway...
As we told you: any one will be able to afford our products, which is a great thing !!
What's that ? "If this is our long term business model, every one will be able to buy our products, but in the end no one will want to anymore?"
Damn. You might have a point...
But what if we.... just lower the prices ??!!??

Now listen, dear customer, you're starting to annoy me a bit. Look at it from our perspective; our competitors have cheap products too !!
What do you mean with "we started that"?!?
Well: they keep up with us, we keep up with them, they keep up with us, we keep up with them, they keep up with us, we.., well you get the idea... ;)
No, You don't have to worry about us: at this moment we are a rich company and we'll still be able to do service, support, research and development.
We'll keep bringing out amazing products for even lower prices. In fact, we have some ideas for products that are much better than the product you're currently looking at !
They will be a lot cheaper than the product you're holding now !
So can I take your credit card details ?

Err... where did he go ?
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Hahaha, this was hilarious. I actually think the price drops are awesome, I just think it's not enough. Getting a full RED One package or Scarlet package from scratch is still significantly more expensive or equally expensive than other, more user friendly options. Given, I haven't used an EPIC yet, but using the RED One is just painful until you get to Post, and then you revel in the beautiful image, but you dread ever having to shoot with the camera ever again.

More importantly, and this keeps getting overlooked...RED is responding to the industry for the first time, instead of telling the industry where to go. There are VALID alternatives to their products instead of RED being a clear choice at the price point. It is simultaneously happening to Apple right now, a company I've also loved. There used to be no question that the iPhone version X had some advantage over another phone, nowadays there are droids that are straight up better. And I don't even need to mention the Mac Pro.
 
Personally, I love shooting with my camera.
 
I've combed through this entire thread reading all of the great things people have had to say about the price reduction, but have also come across an overwhelming number of negative posts as well. My reaction, of course, is why all the complaints?

Jim said it best on the original thread notifying us of the price drop: "So if you bought an EPIC did you lose? Only if you did not put your EPIC to work. These are professional tools. They need to work. That is your responsibility."

RED has opened the doors to a greater market (and Jim even said earlier in this thread that he can't wait to see what the younger generations bring to the table now). Sure, this will result in more competition, but if your work is outstanding and you have a great client relationship, then you shouldn't worry - the terrible camerawork gets filtered out over time. As the saying goes: everyone has a pen, but not everyone is a great writer. Therefore, if you've spent your time complaining about price reductions, what does that say about you?
 
We will see. I always buy new technology and have bought two cameras from RED. I'll be reluctant next go round. I'm not a fan of the manufacturer causing the largest depreciation in value of my equipment. I usually expect time and technology to do that. I expect new equipment to take it's place, not the same equipment at half the price. I personally think it's irresponsible at best.
 
Zachary Marsh;1091567There are VALID alternatives to their products instead of RED being a clear choice at the price point.[/B said:
It is simultaneously happening to Apple right now, a company I've also loved. There used to be no question that the iPhone version X had some advantage over another phone, nowadays there are droids that are straight up better. And I don't even need to mention the Mac Pro.
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No, they aren't. They are VAPOR ware until they are actually shipping and shooting. Pretty obvious to me that RED is responding to their bottom line. NRE paid off is HUGE and I totally get them saying, "damn, we can now make these cheaper and faster" (unintentionally mind you) thats what happens when you pave new roads into the unknown. They have decided to price new cameras accordingly... pretty simple stuff. Its not reactionary its revolutionary and that results in hiccups.

Frankly you sound like a fucking troll with ignorant and lazy posts like this. Offer an intelligent argument at least... because your attitude sucks... and like the price cut or not. I for one RESPECT their transparency.. so please stop reading bullshit into people being straight up... there is clearly no conspiracy save to continue to bring us the best gear in the most affordable fashion they can.
 
Bob Gundu said:
How can cheaper prices force someone to make a shit movie? If the talent isn't there, they would have made the same mistake on the Alexa. To be honest, flooding the market with shitty movies actually makes the good ones stand out even more.

Lets suppose RED did nothing with the prices and stayed at close to double of the competition. The market mindset is such that it compares features to .01 decimal. I know it's crazy but the amount of pixel peeping that goes on drives me nuts. Marketing is powerful and if you miss the initial wave and get left behind, it hurts big time. So, I think RED did the right thing. The last few days people have been getting pretty excited by the new offerings by Sony. You can't deny its a real competitor to Epic. If you want people to really compare the two cameras, you can't be in left field on pricing. As for slowly reducing price over time is a bad idea. You'll never sell because you never know how low it's going to go. A house priced to high that slowly reduces prices over time really hurts the sale. A clean cut was the only way to go. No guessing.... this is the way it is... and move on. It has worked. I'm sure there will be many new sales for Scarlet and Epic, hell.. even Red One. I know it may sting for some, but it really was for the greater good.
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This is well put.
 
Jannard said:
As I said before, everything in the electronics world changes... usually for the better, cheaper and faster. EPIC and Scarlet just did. Right now.
Jim
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Someone should talk to RED Rocket and persuade it to adjust its attitude. Maybe it thinks its built out of rocks.
 
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