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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Atomos Samurai and Scarlett-X - VOTE HERE!

I have the ninja- but i use it for completely different reasons (live capture off of an HD mixer). I think the red workflow in Premiere is really fast and easy, so I guess I don't see the benefit here- unless maybe FCP is the preferred NLE, and working in ProRes is easier? I haven't used FCP much since the Adobe suite started supporting FLUT and the other Red color science.

I understand problems regarding travel- that makes sense. I imagine once people start using small thunderbolt raid devices, then edits on the road will be easier.

Is processor time/ Red Raw debayer a big deal on new laptops? I have an 8-core desktop, but it is the mac pro from 07, which means it is really an 06 machine, so processors should be at least 2x the speed now right?
 
J.D. Frey said:
I have the ninja- but i use it for completely different reasons (live capture off of an HD mixer). I think the red workflow in Premiere is really fast and easy, so I guess I don't see the benefit here- unless maybe FCP is the preferred NLE, and working in ProRes is easier? I haven't used FCP much since the Adobe suite started supporting FLUT and the other Red color science.

I understand problems regarding travel- that makes sense. I imagine once people start using small thunderbolt raid devices, then edits on the road will be easier.

Is processor time/ Red Raw debayer a big deal on new laptops? I have an 8-core desktop, but it is the mac pro from 07, which means it is really an 06 machine, so processors should be at least 2x the speed now right?
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What some see when working in large environments with dedicated professionals to the different production tasks and 100+ days of shooting pr production, is that online/offline is really a smart and effective way to go...

Offlines without transcoding, sounds good to me.
And being able to propagate RED into the DSLR uses they definitely have here, would also simplify stuff.

On boths extremes of the production scale, this is only good.

Cheers!

G
 
So can you actually offline with the footage in the ATOMOS Ninja already- i.e. Can you sync the two systems- is there a control module for the Ninja or some kind of time code tool? I had thought it might be a good way to go, just hand the drives over for offline and take the digital magazine "negative" to get backed up.

Also the 16 hour record time is great if you had something really long to shoot. Not knocking the Ninja, i just bought it for something other that what is being discussed here.
 
J.D. Frey said:
So can you actually offline with the footage in the ATOMOS Ninja already- i.e. Can you sync the two systems- is there a control module for the Ninja or some kind of time code tool? I had thought it might be a good way to go, just hand the drives over for offline and take the digital magazine "negative" to get backed up.

Also the 16 hour record time is great if you had something really long to shoot. Not knocking the Ninja, i just bought it for something other that what is being discussed here.
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As I understand it: Not yet.

But that would be a good use.

We have a number of kipro minis here, but we have not had consistently good results on set with them.
WHether that is user or hardware issues, I dunno. I haven't been able to replicate the issues. But it's not been smooth, that's for sure.

More alternatives is better!

G
 
So what would be the best way to mount this considering I'm already going to have a 5" screen mounted to the top plate?
 
SeanBrown said:
Wow any one use this Hyperdeck?
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I think the Hyperdeck only records uncompressed (correct me if I'm wrong) so that's A LOT of data, more than RAW, that will need to be transcoded anyway. So doesn't help much..
 
M Taylor said:
I think the Hyperdeck only records uncompressed (correct me if I'm wrong) so that's A LOT of data, more that RAW, that will need to be transcoded anyway. So doesn't help much..
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That is correct, and I don't think it is very useful in these types of scenarios
 
A photographer posted an interesting question at Scarletuser: Could one record 5k full frame full motion to an external 1080p deck to take advantage of the larger field of view? Some might consider that an advantage.

I can certainly see the advantage to adding an external 1080p recorder that costs about the same as 64GB SSD to shoot low end fast turn video projects. Setting up a selection of practical video LUTs in camera for this kind of use should allow shooting high quality HD as you would with any other HD camera.
Why limit the multi-functional potential of the camera?
 
I have lots of projects with a 1080p (or lower) delivery format that require a fast turnaround. I can often find that I'm filming in the morning, editing in the afternoon with delivery either that evening or early the next day. For that type of work the Samurai or another similar device will be extremely helpful and will significantly speed up the workflow for many cameras with HDSDI out, including Scarlet.

Let's hope Scarlet puts out a decent signal that we can use.
 
Aside from the quality of the plug and cable, are there any distinct advantages of the Samurai over the Ninja?

It is a $500 difference.

HDSDI is a way nice plug and cable, but I have been shooting a 7D with a 7" LCD HDMI monitor for years. If the HDMI cable comes out of your 7D while recording, it will immediately stop recording. That has never happened to me during a shot. I have been through a few cables, but I keep spares with me, and they are cheap.
 
So.... Paul or anyone that has one have any updates? I am about to bite the bullet and order one and was wondering if there are any updates on the black border, file naming conventions, auto-record triggered from the SDI port?

Buy or not to buy, that is the question :-)
 
Adam Howden said:
Hey Brian,

Noel has pretty much hit the nail on the head. All jobs are different, I can be out shooting on an Epic one day, an Alexa the next then down to a Sony-EX3 the day after. The RAW format whilst great add's a lot of time and money to your post budget. When most work doesn't really require RAW. A 1080p Flat looking ProRes file would give you plenty of quality and lots of versatility. Also, why offer a client full RAW recording if they can only afford to pay for Pro Res, unless you love the project. BUT some projects you shoot for money and some project you shoot for love. Sometimes a project has both money and love, but not always :-)
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Totally agree...

Adam, thanks for this post, I was actually on both Atomos and Sound Devices sites yesterday trying to decide which would best suit. I certainly prefer the Atomos price...fingers crossed they get them to talk to each other.

Im pretty sure I met you a while ago on a Jebs clip you shot?
 
We have both the Samurai and the Scarlet. I will also do some testing next week. I think it is a great solution for many kinds of projects.
 
I had a conversation with the Atomos guys at NAB last year and they are definitely thinking about Red compatibility and promised that this would come with future updates. I have a Samurai and on the first gig I worked with it it was totally flaky. I have upgraded the firmware and have used it on one job since and all was well. Construction quality is pretty average and the screen is crappy and mini BNC painful but this is a $1,500 recorder and I am more than happy with the value. This type of kit will be obsolete in a few short years so no expectations of long service and I always dual record so reliability is not mission critical. I also intend to use it attached to the client monitor as recordable video split independent of the camera.
Presently the Samurai has to be manually put into record which is a major pain. Until this is addressed the Samurai is of limited value to Red users. If it could also read the metadata and name its files after the R3D files this would be a must have machine.

What some people forget in these discussions is as professional cinematographers it is not always our call on what format gets used and there are many commercial gigs were the requirements are more than met by Pro res. I need a flexible system that can fulfil all my different clients needs. Does Nikon or Canon make a DSLR that has RAW only and no JPEG? Not that I know of
 
Awwww.....come on Tom.......mate i have a Samurai and its a great little recorder, It hasn't skipped a beat since i got it.
Its built to a price point, and its rugged enough for most situations, and its lite ...........(SD PIX240 3lb 10oz.... Samurai 1.5lbs fully loaded) Im going to take it to Israel & the Sinai for a doco project so ill let you know how it takes the dust & heat.......!
The mini BNC is fine, just had a few extra right angle MINI BNC-BNCs made up, easy to come by, great....!
The Atomos guys are about to release Avid codecs ,screen locks, D-TAP power cables.......etc etc they are serious about their unit, and its great to see
Yes you have to touch a button on a screen to get it to record when using it with the RED...........no biggy.....?
It took TC & Audio from the RED SDI output, all that i needed, for the work i have been doing......and it recorded the 120fps playback....so i got 120fps....in PRO RES.......wow...
No it doesn't record the RED's file structure information......didnt need it........TC was enough.....
I love it........Its not all that bad, i think its a great little box.......
 
Paul Moss said:
...The Atomos guys are about to release Avid codecs ,screen locks, D-TAP power cables... Yes you have to touch a button on a screen to get it to record when using it with the RED...........no biggy.....?
It took TC & Audio from the RED SDI output, all that i needed, for the work i have been doing......and it recorded the 120fps playback....so i got 120fps....in PRO RES......
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I got my Samurai already, so now I'm just waiting for the Avid DNxHD firmware, the DTap (I didn't know that was coming out, awesome!), and... oh yeah, my Scarlet.

To answer Naim, The biggest + to the Samurai and - to the Ninja for me is the timecode capabilities that SDI has. Being able to hand off a $50 drive, imediately to a client at the end of a full day's shoot is fantastic, but being able to offer match-back in 4K RAW once the off-line edit is done, so the client doesn't get stuck with transcoding, is god-like.

I also decided to get a portable DVD recorder setup that can take HDMI (much cheaper solution than SDI) for those clients who want to watch the dalies right after the shoot (but don't have editing software on their laptops). I might switch to SDI->DVD if this option proves popular enough.

One other interesting use of the Samurai sans an automatic recording trigger, to concidder: Let the thing record non stop all day and get all the behind the scenes, outtakes/missed takes/practice takes, and director's notes you could want!
 
Sebastian, Rafael - any results with your Scarlets + Atomos products? I'd love to hear some feedback on that setup.

Aaron, thanks for your thoughts. What is the timecode situation via HDMI? I thought it did carry timecode?

I won't ever going back to RAW for my uses (and I think Scarlet will make proxies in the future, like the One does, correct?), and I definitely don't need outtakes. I am just thinking of quick little corporates/interviews, etc. Useful timecode is an asset, but I don't need it to refer to anything else, so as long as it is present, unique and visible at the time of recording, that is fine.
 
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