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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ask David Mullen ANYTHING

Mark Toia said:
Hey David..

I thought I'd sit for a while and read all your advice posts to everyone, been reading for hours now...

Mate... Wonderful. Your a very very giving man. My hat off to you.

Your an amazing asset to any young (and older) person looking for free and best of all, correct cinematography advice.


Thank you David, your an amazing man.
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+1.
Your generosity with your knowledge and expertise is both refreshing and surprising for a practitioner of your stature.
Threads like this are essential reading for our cinematography students.
Thanks again.
 
Jon Chema said:
Hey David,

I'm shooting a music video in the next month or so and am going for a glamour look. The video is going to be shot entirely on green screen and the artist himself is the only talent I'll be shooting. Recently I've heard a lot about Breise lights and the super soft and unique quality that they have. Have you ever used them before? If so what makes them so great? Are there any other alternatives that you might recommend or any other approaches one could take to light the video in a very flattering way. Such as shooting a few Maxi 9lights through an 8x8 of 1/4 grid. I do want to have SOME bit of contrast on the talent.


Thanks in advance for your help!
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I haven't used Breise lights, though some commercial/music video shooters swear by them. Here's the thing: they aren't really designed for the rigors of production shooting on location, which is mainly what I do -- there's a limit to how many specialized lights I can afford to rent and put into a truck, so most lights have to do multiple duties, hence the standard workhhorse package of PAR's, fresnels, etc. in HMI and tungsten. But I'm sure that the Breise lights put out a lovely soft key, and I'm sure they make the talent feel special...

Yes, I'd probably do the same thing with a large frame of diffusion and some light behind it, like Maxis. 1/4 Grid is a bit light for me, I'd probably start with Light Grid, but that's just a matter of taste and how much sharpness you want in the soft light. When I only want a hint of softening, I usually use Half Soft Frost, which is a shower curtain-like material similar to Opal in terms of softening. Of course, you can always double-diffuse to further soften a light, like put 4'x4' frames of diffusion between the Maxis and the 8'x8' frame of diffusion. There is this soft black grid pattern of baffles you can put in front of the diffusion frame called Light Tools to direct the soft light a bit and reduce spill.

I guess the other advantage of Breise lights is the circular reflection you'd get in the eye for the close-ups.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I haven't used Breise lights, though some commercial/music video shooters swear by them. Here's the thing: they aren't really designed for the rigors of production shooting on location, which is mainly what I do -- there's a limit to how many specialized lights I can afford to rent and put into a truck, so most lights have to do multiple duties, hence the standard workhhorse package of PAR's, fresnels, etc. in HMI and tungsten. But I'm sure that the Breise lights put out a lovely soft key, and I'm sure they make the talent feel special...

Yes, I'd probably do the same thing with a large frame of diffusion and some light behind it, like Maxis. 1/4 Grid is a bit light for me, I'd probably start with Light Grid, but that's just a matter of taste and how much sharpness you want in the soft light. When I only want a hint of softening, I usually use Half Soft Frost, which is a shower curtain-like material similar to Opal in terms of softening. Of course, you can always double-diffuse to further soften a light, like put 4'x4' frames of diffusion between the Maxis and the 8'x8' frame of diffusion. There is this soft black grid pattern of baffles you can put in front of the diffusion frame called Light Tools to direct the soft light a bit and reduce spill.

I guess the other advantage of Breise lights is the circular reflection you'd get in the eye for the close-ups.
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Thanks David! Any other lights you would recommend for a situation like this?
 
I'd reccomend a octa light. Its a huge round Reflector that puts out soft but yet directional light. Even without a diffusion cloth it renders pleasingly soft shadows. I only know a tungsten 800 unit but I think I got an F4 at 800 ASA so it has a good output. That's a source that is ideal for one light setups, where you only use a reflector to fill the shadows. I like to take just a tiny bit of silver on a flag in front of the talent for a portrait. What also ist nice to flag of the key of the octagon a bit which renders a nice oval shaped face but because of the movements of the talent it's something that work better for stills and has to be operated by an assistent and always move accordingly.
Take a look at the photography of Marco Grob. Most of his work is done with a Octa (in his case flash but the reflector is the same) and a simple silver bounce. Take a look at the reflections in the eyes and you will know what I mean.
 
Hello David,

I'm now fairly sure that typical 35mm film negative has about 14.5 stops of Dynamic Range,
but do you know what the Dynamic Range of a typical 35mm Release Print is?

Thanks in advance.
 
No, I don't know an exact figure. My old rule of thumb was roughly eleven stops more or less could be seen on a print but that's not scientific, just the range I tended to work within. Basically something like four or five under would go black and six or seven over would go white.

The thing is that you always want more color and dynamic range information in the original because otherwise you have no room to move the image around and you'd have to shoot almost dead-on for the final look, like when shooting slide film.
 
David, a comment in the Ask Mike Most Anything thread about how matching shots that are taken at different times within a scene is so important. This is probably a relatively easy fix in post, but I would hope to do this during shooting.

So my question is: If I'm shooting with natural light are there filters that would normalize between say 10:00 AM, noon, 4:00 PM? Surely it wouldn't be as simple as changing the color temp in camera, would it?
 
Elsie N said:
So my question is: If I'm shooting with natural light are there filters that would normalize between say 10:00 AM, noon, 4:00 PM? Surely it wouldn't be as simple as changing the color temp in camera, would it?
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It's an age-old problem and there are no easy solutions. In fact, outdoor continuity is one of the biggest pains that a cinematographer has to deal with. The only real solution is to just shoot at the right time of day in the same weather conditions for every angle -- but that would require a very long schedule in the same location. Terrance Malick can get away with this, shoot for some months in one location and go out at select times of day for coverage, even schedule pick-ups and reshoots as needed, etc. But it also helps that he doesn't shoot conventional coverage where a dozen angles all have to match perfectly, everything is more fluid and poetic.

But for most of us, we get some day exterior scene scheduled to be shot and completed in a half-day and there are two or three more scenes scheduled for the afternoon, and there's a chance that the last few set-ups will have to be shot at night and still look like day. And perhaps this is your only day on this location, and perhaps your schedule is so tight that even if you had a location coming down the road next week where you can cheat a pick-up shot, your day is too full to add more work to it.

There is no single method of making footage shot from early morning through noon to all look the same. It's not just a question of overall color -- the light may be warmer when the sun is lower, but the fill is cooler, so just adding a warming filter isn't going to help necessarily.

You have a couple of choices -- the most practical one is to pick whatever type of daylight effect is easier to cheat all day long. In some situations that might mean silking the sun and making it soft all day long as a general approach. In other situations, it may mean shooting in backlight in the morning, then flagging the real sun off when it gets higher, like with a solid instead of a silk, and then using a powerful light to simulate the early or late sun. You can use gels on lights to match color temp differences within limits, and post timing may help blend shifts in contrast and color. But it's all a struggle, I'm sorry to say... no one has found an easy solution. Some people says "shoot your wide shots in the light you like and then fake the lighting in the close-ups with tents, flags, etc." and others say "shoot the close-ups in the light you like because those are the more important shots and if the light is less good in the wide shots, that's just too bad". You have to play it by ear... sometimes you can tell what's easy to fake and what isn't.
 
Hi David,
Thank you for taking the time to answer questions and provide insight. Your responses alongside the screen grabs and behind-the-scenes photos is invaluable. So thank you for that, but now I have an appetite for more!
Do you know of any other places on the web where I might find production journals and/or behind-the-scenes insight from yourself or other cinematographers?

I'm currently reading through the "In Production" forum on Cinematography.com, as well as the forums on Roger Deakins' site. I'm also a subscriber to American Cinematographer, and have read the aforementioned books in this thread.

Again, I want to reiterate how appreciative I am for what I've learned, thank you!
 
Hey David,
Have you used Kino Flo and if so what is your over all experience with them? Do you always use daylight blubs? Do you like to use them for a particular location?
Thanks
Sean
 
Brian Dickman said:
Do you know of any other places on the web where I might find production journals and/or behind-the-scenes insight from yourself or other cinematographers?

I'm currently reading through the "In Production" forum on Cinematography.com, as well as the forums on Roger Deakins' site. I'm also a subscriber to American Cinematographer, and have read the aforementioned books in this thread.
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There's also ICG Magazine, the IA Local 600 publication, which overlaps a lot with American Cinematographer. And if you are interested in visual effects, there is Cinefex Magazine.

Beyond that, there are just scattered articles in the other publications, some online, you generally just have to stumble across them now and then, you don't need monthly subscriptions. Other than that, there is just wandering through various website forums - often you come across them while doing searches for specific information. For example, Art Adam's articles in ProVideo Coalition are very educational.

There is also the Cinematographers Mailing List (CML) -- go to Cinematography.net. This is a site for professionals to discuss by email various topics; you can receive a digest (I think) or just the daily emails in different categories, which is what I do.
 
SeanBrown said:
Hey David,
Have you used Kino Flo and if so what is your over all experience with them? Do you always use daylight blubs? Do you like to use them for a particular location?
Thanks
Sean
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I use them all the time, mostly for day interiors and locations with fluorescent lighting. In daylight, there is such a mix of colors that Kino 55's blend quite well with HMI's, etc. In fluorescent situations like hospitals and grocery stores, Kinos can use the same tubes in the overhead fixtures.

It's only in tungsten-lit situations where I find that the look of tungsten Kinos aren't a perfect match for incandescent light bulbs, so I'll use Kinos as the fill light or edge light, not the key... or I'll use Kinos for everything -- key, fill, back, etc. But having one actor in a tungsten incandescent key and the other in a Kino 32 key doesn't quite match to my eyes, though it's close enough for a lot of purposes -- sometimes you have no choice because it's so convenient to use a Kino, like to walk the key around, or to tape tubes off-camera around a bathroom mirror, for example. So mixing Kino 32 tubes and tungsten fixtures can work fine but you have to think it through a little more carefully -- whereas I mix Kino 55 tubes, natural daylight, and HMI's all the time.

Kinos are useful when you have power limitations, and when you are worried about heat build-up in the room, compared to using tungsten lamps.
 
Hi David and friends. I will be shooting my 2nd feature this fall and the director is very keen on using older glass as a way to achieve a 70s look in the film, but we will probably be shooting RED. We want lenses with low contrast, easily flared, and somewhat soft, but still practical to shoot with. This area is new to me. I have experience with Ziess super and standard speeds, as well as the Angenieux Optimo, but this is a new can of worms.

I've seen references to Super Baltars and lomo lenses. I know things like lens mount and focus gears may be issues, as well as finding a set that will intercut well.

What do you think? Is this a nice idea but impractical in reality, or are there some good options?

Thanks for your expertise!

David George
 
Certainly those old lenses have a "look" though I haven't personally used them so I can't say how hard they are to deal with. What some people have done is rent lenses that have had the coatings removed, you can ask a rental house if they have any Standard Speeds like that. Panavision's old Ultra Speeds are from the 70's and flare a lot, but then you are talking about a PV-mount lens. The Cooke 10:1 zooms and some types of Angenieux's are from that era.

I might just use a modern Ang. zoom and a very light Double Fog filter or something like that from the era.
 
David, as a follow up to your response to Brian Dickman (8/3), are there any blogs you like (not already mentioned)? I remember a woman who had a popular site. I think she was a gaffer or grip. Also, there was a guy who's blog dealt more with talent. I changed my computer and lost both addresses in the upgrade.
 
I don't follow a lot of blogs myself, I'm sort of old school I guess. Mike Most has a good blog, I can't think of many DP's with blogs... I like Roger Deakins' forum but that's not a blog, and I like John Bailey's blogs that get posted on the ASC site:
http://www.ascmag.com/blog/

I'm about to get very busy shooting a new TV series, which means this is the time I start thinking "gee, I wish I could start some big reading project -- like go back to the 1920's American Cinematographers and start rereading them again up to the present..." Meaning I can't.
 
Thanks David! What strength would you consider to be very light in a double fog? 1/8? 1/4? Am I also correct that there is not a solution for adapting PV to PL? Thanks! David George
 
Sure, all PV lenses will work on a PL camera, though not all PL lenses would on a PV camera due to the smaller space between the mirror and a PL mount. But you'd have to rent the lenses from Panavision and get them to convert them to a PL-mount, or your camera to a PV-mount, and I suspect either may be hard if you aren't renting an entire package from Panavision.

You may want to hit the other Arri rental houses first and ask them what old optics they still have on the back shelves. Alan Gordon Enterprises has a lot of old stuff for rent, though they may not have converted the old BNCR & Arri standard, etc. lenses to PL-mounts, which is a more modern mount.

Yes, a 1/8 Double Fog would help with the low-con look, or a 1/8 Fog or Low-Con.
 
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