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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

arriflex

RED still has a lead.

d21_head.jpg

ARRI-D21 recording 30 fps max at 2880 x 1620 only.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing the D21 at NAB.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this camera just because it's "only" 2k; it appears to be extremely well thought out and totally integrated into the Arriflex system. The controls and readouts are very ergonomic.

The Arriflex guys have been at the film making equipment business for a long time and that experience really shows.

Of course it's highly unlikely that I could afford a D21, but I'll wager that this camera will be a darling at rental houses and a favored choice on large budget digital features, especially with operators who favor optical viewfinders.

I'm still crazy in love with my Red and it's price/performance is unequalled. On that same tack, even though a functional Red can be configured somewhere in the upper twenties, a truly versatile package with a high-quality zoom and good primes quickly climbs closer to 80K or even higher.

I don't think most of us should fear the D21; we have plenty of advantages with the Red in addition to the very obvious price factor. We should not, however, count Arriflex out of the game and others are sure to join the fun, perhaps at prices competitive with Red.

Lastly, I've been thinking for a while now about the price of the Red body; how much is it worth to us? Now that I've seen what it can do on my own projects, I would easily pay considerably more for it. Compare it to the latest offerings from Panasonic and Sony; camera bodies alone well over $50,000.00 and we were very happy to buy them.

Would I pay 50K for a Red body? Absolutely. And I'd stand in a queue to get one.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo Ticheli
Director/Cinematographer
 
I hope they wiped all the suck off of it, cause it was dripping in it last time I checked. Having made pictures with both cameras, the d-20 is to Red what Hi-8 is to super 16. We went through 3 bodies, none of which looked at all similar, image changed daily, all kinds of issues.

Oh yeah, it's a giant pain in the ass to work with. Arri is a wonderfull company, and they did a lot of things right on this camera, but it was not ready for the production world last time out. Anyone who has used both would pick red hands down every time.

Hmmmmm........... Buy red, buy d-21 rehouse red in arri body........

Nick
 
Tobeorx said:
I'm looking forward to seeing the D21 at NAB.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this camera just because it's "only" 2k; it appears to be extremely well thought out and totally integrated into the Arriflex system. The controls and readouts are very ergonomic.

The Arriflex guys have been at the film making equipment business for a long time and that experience really shows.

Of course it's highly unlikely that I could afford a D21, but I'll wager that this camera will be a darling at rental houses and a favored choice on large budget digital features, especially with operators who favor optical viewfinders.

I'm still crazy in love with my Red and it's price/performance is unequalled. On that same tack, even though a functional Red can be configured somewhere in the upper twenties, a truly versatile package with a high-quality zoom and good primes quickly climbs closer to 80K or even higher.

I don't think most of us should fear the D21; we have plenty of advantages with the Red in addition to the very obvious price factor. We should not, however, count Arriflex out of the game and others are sure to join the fun, perhaps at prices competitive with Red.

Lastly, I've been thinking for a while now about the price of the Red body; how much is it worth to us? Now that I've seen what it can do on my own projects, I would easily pay considerably more for it. Compare it to the latest offerings from Panasonic and Sony; camera bodies alone well over $50,000.00 and we were very happy to buy them.

Would I pay 50K for a Red body? Absolutely. And I'd stand in a queue to get one.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo Ticheli
Director/Cinematographer
Click to expand...

No doubts that Arriflex D-21 should be a very good ARRI product but I said that is just 2K 30 fps camera that for sure carrying a higher price tag than RED 4K US $17.500.
 
Mainly, compared to the RED, forgetting the price differences, what you're getting with the Arri-D21 over the RED is an optical viewfinder and a 10-bit 4:4:4 1080P LOG output mode. Downside to that, of course, is that you need a recorder for that 1080P signal, like an SRW1 deck.

Plus in 2.8K Data Mode, you get to use a 1.33 : 1 sensor area, which is useful for 2X anamorphic lenses. On the other hand, you can crop the sides of the 4K RED sensor to get 2.39 scope using 2X anamorphic lenses and end up in the same ballpark in terms of horizontal resolution.
 
Yeah,

optical viewfinder is attractive but also EVF and LCD can get job done.

10-bit 4:4:4 1080P LOG output mode, OK.

But 4K REDCODE RAW is like a virgin.

A007_C001_080410_0000000.jpg

A002_C002_080412_01470.jpg

You can "nail" a focus with LCD (HD-SDI to BM HDLink to 20" Apple Cinema Display) on RED.
 
Sanjin,

The benefits of an optical finder don't have anything to do with focus. Most AC's rarely get to look through the finder. It's more about being able to set up the shot without having to power the camera up, and still work while swapping batteries etc.
 
Thanks Mike,

always good to know.

"In the future also the P+S Technik IMS optical viewfinder can be used with the new designed IMS camera front!"

This is a quote from P+S TECHNIK page about upcoming IMS Camera Front for RED One.

LINK>>>>
 
Arri D21 @ Nab 08

Arri D21 @ Nab 08

Okay,

the only reason I stopped by after meeting ARRI's Vicepresident of the NY branch, was mostly to check out the HAWK 150mm Anamorphic lens, which is very impressive peace of glass.

The EVF on the D21 is also impressive, but I still find the RED EVF that much more impressive.

The camera is a great machine, and no doubt will find its users as I know of already few projects in the making, such as the Zodiac and other two.

Any way since I found this post I tough I'll share a pic.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/22977685@N06/2408761167/sizes/o/


Ciao
 
They needed to "Ted up" their preso

They needed to "Ted up" their preso

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back at the NAB DoP Workshop hearing about the D21 from an Arri rep. It was PowerPoint hell, and that's coming from a confessed camera nerd. The art of saying so much yet so little is a black art indeed.

They neglected to bring a D21 to the seminar and the only footage they showed on the 4K SXRD projector looked pretty good but as Brook pointed out it was a unique piece that provided little reference to real world shooting situations.

The mechanical shutter, optical finder and DR (if it is as good as the specs say) will make the D21 a popular choice, particularly for DPs who are most comfortable with cameras that feel like a 35 camera.

The primary reason I would pick the RedOne over the Arri D21 is not resolution or price, its the power of an on board intelligently compressed media solution that doesn't require me hanging an SRW-1 or tether off the rig and that has a sane data rate for post. Viva la RedCode.
 
I think that the d-21s real strong point is the support for anamorphic lenses where you get the full benefit of the lens.
Thats my thoughts anyway Arri is also boasting the best dynamic range of any digital cinema camera but I'm not sure how true that really is.
 
You don`t necessarily need an srw-recorder, a venom flashpack works just as well. But anyway, the system is quite big and heavy compared to other solutions.
 
ARRI-D21 specs:

"Highest frame rate at 2880 x 2160 (4:3) is 25 fps.
Highest frame rate at 2880 x 1620 (16:9) is 30 fps.
Camera is currently only available for rental."

Quote from
Marc Shipman-Mueller
ARRI Product Manager Cameras & Lenses
 
ARRIFLEX D-21 is still not ready for a real competition with RED.

You know what?

RED is already a market leader in 4K, 3K and 2K is left for upcoming Scarlet.
 
Gbabymogul said:
The new arri D21 camera is leaps beyond the original by far. Many of the concerns of the original camera (and some that red never addressed) have been greatly improved. I once suggested to Jim to implement a mech. shutter - for Motion (maybe for epic), angle the connectors - Reliability/cost, and add other specs. Arri has implemented all of them. They've also bettered system integration and kept both Raw and 4:4:4 output which red abandoned (although in their original specs). Arri's sensor and output loves daylight and has good handling of latitude, dr, holds detail (olpf, ir, sensor fabrication) and Arriraw further contribute to highlight handling exceptionally well.

The arri D21 is closer to the top specs that
red initially released and or promised and although the performace of the d21 in low light is circumspect, if one looks at the improvements and the engineering of the camera then it behooves one not to be so dismissive, especially without any comparitive analysis. Taking an emotional response to these cameras is baffling to me, and even moreso if you're going off just what's written. We spent a few hours talking to Arri about an upcoming feature , and talked with a dp who's familiar with the camera. Arri doesn't engage in hype and they take a long time to test their camera in a variety of environments - the general public don't test their cameras for them - this company has a different philosophy. One that is neither better nor worse, but different. Where Jim charges ahead and figures out how to get supplies through later, Arri takes a measured response, and takes ground a wee bit, securing and supplying as they go forward.

As mentioned - neither is better nor worse - only the final product counts.

If you haven't seen any of the footage of the Dalsa, F23, Arri how can you come on the forum and tell others how red is superior ?. That's not a knock but i'm just curious. I never mentioned a Dalsa comparison until I saw prod. footage in a prod. environment. Then and only then did I decide that their image was if not the best then one of the best.

Sadly, this forum has been diff. for awhile now - i'll stop posting.

I appreciate all the pros who've helped me out and answered Pm's. Their professionalism and civility has been a pleasure to behold - with special note to Mr. Mullen. But, the hype over first hand expeirence is bs. Objective voices are shouted down or ignored. Jim and Jarred are gifted and gracious people and I wish them all the best.

edit : since i'm posting anyway - anyone who wants to know how easy it is to implement a universal mount system, and the efficacy of using interchangeable lenses on a 2/3" sensor please talk to Jason Rodriguez - just facts. Decide for yourselves. :-)
Click to expand...

Gbabymogul,

you sounds a bit desperate.

By the way I was at the last IBC show in Amsterdam 2007 and have seen all the competition (presented) shots from Dalsa, Arri D20, F23, SI-2K, etc...

Somebody could described me as "an advanced consumer".

Also for all other "professional" knowledge in a field I look at the books, magazines, printed specs, finished products and results, films, videos... and would never, never trust to any 'professional' blaahh, blaahh... especially at the forum(s) like this...

I am an artist and believe in my "Third Eye" sensibility only ...
 
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