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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri DR Test...

arri test info is interesting but, with all due respect, i think a 2/3 DR test would be much more so.

the lack of 2/3 test data makes me worry whether the results are significantly less impressive and thus not something RED wishes to emphasize at this time. if that were the case, i suppose it would be understandable from a marketing standpoint.

any chance of charts soon to put such speculation to rest?
 
Jim!
I trust you guys in RED not just 'cause I got a RED ONE in 2008, but for your transparency, not only here in REDUSER.net, but because all you have said has become the right way to work with the camera you have built.

So I'm with you as long as you keep working in this way!

Thank you all for being this sincere!
 
alex lemon said:
arri test info is interesting but, with all due respect, i think a 2/3 DR test would be much more so.

the lack of 2/3 test data makes me worry whether the results are significantly less impressive and thus not something RED wishes to emphasize at this time. if that were the case, i suppose it would be understandable from a marketing standpoint.

any chance of charts soon to put such speculation to rest?
Click to expand...

I have made my comments on 2/3" Scarlet. It is up to you if you still are nervous or not.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
As many have pointed out before... DR is not the only criteria that should be used to judge the overall performance of a camera. We include price, convenience, service, resolution, color, post workflow, and reliability... among other things. But it is nice to know that the M-X sensor is right up there with the best of the newest.

Jim
Click to expand...

This very criteria items above described and off course amongst the "other things" CUSTOMER SERVICE" are behind the reasons that we "LOVE" RED.
 
i have no reason to be nervous, it will be what it will be. I look forward to seeing the hard data. i am an optimistic skeptic. i'll hope for the best while withholding judgement. cheers, Alex
 
I warn you all, if my MX RED has jetlag when it arrives next week, I will NOT let it rest for a second, it´s STRAIGHT to work!
 
Wow. I know this is Apples to Orangutans but the Stouffers back in October only showed 12 stops.
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=493730&postcount=1

Is this an extra stop and a half you've found in calibration since October or is this test just a little more generous in awarding DnR? In other words how does Mysterium do by comparison on the same test?

13.5 is Monstro territory. Which is to say crazy good.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Wow. I know this is Apples to Orangutans but the Stouffers back in October only showed 12 stops.
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=493730&postcount=1

Is this an extra stop and a half you've found in calibration since October or is this test just a little more generous in awarding DnR? In other words how does Mysterium do by comparison on the same test?

13.5 is Monstro territory. Which is to say crazy good.
Click to expand...

I'm sure quite a bit has changed/been fixed/upgraded and for the most part bettered in the last six months.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Wow. I know this is Apples to Orangutans but the Stouffers back in October only showed 12 stops.
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=493730&postcount=1

Is this an extra stop and a half you've found in calibration since October or is this test just a little more generous in awarding DnR? In other words how does Mysterium do by comparison on the same test?

13.5 is Monstro territory. Which is to say crazy good.
Click to expand...

This is a really good question. We have found more since the very 1st time we turned it on... which is why we don't show as much early stuff as we used to. A lot was done from October to January... then a big calibration improvement.

In addition... every test is different and yields slightly to largely different results. This is a bit maddening since everyone tends to reply on "the numbers".

My best recommendation is to test cameras and see which ones satisfy your checklist better than the others. In side by side testing, does 1/3 stop of DR really make more difference than 5X the resolution? Or cost? Or convenience? Or make up for the difference in a difficult post workflow?

Take all the numbers, your tests, your gut feel and your wallet and make a decision. Some will rent film cameras... some will buy RED. Some will prefer other options. That is the good news... you have lots of good options now.

Jim
 
Nice! Any 13+ stop camera is no slouch. My tests came in at around 13.3, but that was several versions of the firmware ago in a less-than-perfect testing environment... only working in 1/3 stop increments as well. Inaccurate to say the least.

Can't wait to see the final results... even though they'll be "final" results of a "beta" back-end that's only going to improve.

I hope that people remember that when the final results are coming, a few tenths of a stop in one direction or another doesn't make a huge difference from camera system to camera system. There are so many other variables that make one system more or less desirable than another for a certain job... many of which go well beyond image quality and end on general practical usability.
 
Brook Willard said:
Nice! Any 13+ stop camera is no slouch. My tests came in at around 13.3, but that was several versions of the firmware ago in a less-than-perfect testing environment... only working in 1/3 stop increments as well. Inaccurate to say the least.

Can't wait to see the final results... even though they'll be "final" results of a "beta" back-end that's only going to improve.

I hope that people remember that when the final results are coming, a few tenths of a stop in one direction or another doesn't make a huge difference from camera system to camera system. There are so many other variables that make one system more or less desirable than another for a certain job... many of which go well beyond image quality and end on general practical usability.
Click to expand...

Brook... it is nice that you got similar results and I agree with you 100% on this one. While we will continue to improve every aspect of the image... there is a point where cameras should become tools to use instead of lab rats. Sometimes we get so focused on every number that we forget the big picture. Numbers are guidelines, not the end game.

Jim
 
It would be interesting to compare with some digital still cameras (RAW), of course, they can only do a few frames a second, but 13.5 stops should be around or more what best DSLRs can squeeze out of their sensors.

Any chance that the guys could also shoot, say EOS 1D mk IV for comparison?

13.5 stops, huh? That's HDR territory. Well done.
 
13.3 is pretty close to our 13.5.

We are still pushing to get more out of the sensor every day.
 
Jannard said:
Brook... it is nice that you got similar results and I agree with you 100% on this one. While we will continue to improve every aspect of the image... there is a point where cameras should become tools to use instead of lab rats. Sometimes we get so focused on every number that we forget the big picture. Numbers are guidelines, not the end game.

Jim
Click to expand...

One must remember that a production rarely hires a Director of Chartography. :)

Numbers are one useful way of measuring one part of a camera system. It's a small part of an equation, not the answer.

Deanan said:
13.3 is pretty close to our 13.5.

We are still pushing to get more out of the sensor every day.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Since I was only testing in 1/3 stop increments, my next step was 13.7... so I would've missed the sweet spot anyways.

I should note that my tests were very homegrown and tossed together... and it was not using the Arri DR chart. It was the "point at a chart and bracket" test. :) It was also about 5 versions of the firmware and RCX ago.



I just hope that people try their hardest to step back from looking at cameras in terms of "best" and "worst". Every camera is a different tool. There's been a lot of unwarranted badmouthing of different camera systems here lately and it's not called for. I hate clicking the "last page" button and catching the end of a pointless argument. Let's keep the meat off the yardstick and appreciate the pros of all of the great camera systems available to us!
 
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Jannard said:
Brook... it is nice that you got similar results and I agree with you 100% on this one. While we will continue to improve every aspect of the image... there is a point where cameras should become tools to use instead of lab rats. Sometimes we get so focused on every number that we forget the big picture. Numbers are guidelines, not the end game.

Jim
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the hard work on these incredible tools you have made. I can't wait (and you too I'm sure) for the launch of your new line so you can do some more shooting. These cameras of course match your own personal visual style and I look forward to seeing what will come out.
 
Brook, I agree on the "comparison" point you make. I apologize if I am stuck on the Alexa v Epic place but looking at rental rate guesstimations I'd say Alexa needs 15 stops to make me consider it atm. I am stoked with all other measurable and not so much aspects of M-X.

I guessed 13.75 when it is all said and done, looks like I am going to get my wish! :D
 
I'm looking forward to seeing the results- thanks for running the tests.
 
Sooooooo...... if the MX Sensor is going to deliver around 13.5 stops,
then what is the new Dynamic Range goal for the Monstro Sensor?
 
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