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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arguments for Dragon over Arri Mini?

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richiel

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The company I am working with wants to buy a Arri Mini. I think the money would be much better spent on a Weapon. For some reason they think the picture out of the Mini is more pleasing. I tell them you can get the exact same look out of the Weapon with all the other added benefits of shooting 6k. I am not convincing them. Can anyone give me some arguments and examples of movies shot on dragon that look like the TV show GAME OF THRONES. They love the look of this show and for some reason think you can't get that look with the Dragon. Thanks for your help.
 
richiel said:
The company I am working with wants to buy a Arri Mini. I think the money would be much better spent on a Weapon. For some reason they think the picture out of the Mini is more pleasing. I tell them you can get the exact same look out of the Weapon with all the other added benefits of shooting 6k. I am not convincing them. Can anyone give me some arguments and examples of movies shot on dragon that look like the TV show GAME OF THRONES. They love the look of this show and for some reason think you can't get that look with the Dragon. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

There is some work out there that has been shot on Alexas that could be tricky (not impossible) for a Red Dragon camera to emulate. I really don't think GoT would need to change much at all if shot on a Red W.

Why do you want them to aquire a 'W'?
Who will be the DP?...
What lenses will you be using?
What do you guys shoot? Beauty market? Travel stuff? Food?
How will the post be handled?

Why don't you do a test? Shoot the kind of thing you guys make with both cameras and go from there?

I suggest this because pointing at a film shot on a Red camera and saying it was shot on Red is very far from buying a Red camera and producing work that looks like said film..

good luck

Michael
 
The first two questions are:

- Who are you clients?
- Are you finishing 4K?

The 2nd questions are:

- How much does it take to rig a functional camera package?
- Is weight super important to you?

Weapon has a lot of advantages if you have both cameras in front of you.
 
Buy an Arri because every body wants Arri.

Don't bother about picture quality, the only argument here is where do the mainstreem go? You shall follow.
As in the old days there was a say in the Broadcast production : "none has never been fired for buying a Sony".

Today is "none has never been fired for shooting an Arri".

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Buy an Arri because every body wants Arri.

Don't bother about picture quality, the only argument here is where do the mainstreem go? You shall follow.
As in the old days there was a say in the Broadcast production : "none has never been fired for buying a Sony".

Today is "none has never been fired for shooting an Arri".
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Absolutely, but there are entities where Arri at the moment doesn't qualify as a camera to be used on set. Just putting that out there.

Won't get you fired, but also won't get you the job.
 
The answer depends on what kind of content does your company produce?

As you said, it's largely a matter of personal taste for images.

It's really hard to make a RED image look like Alexa, it can be done, but it takes time.

I think that different cameras are good for different genres and image types. RED is ideal for sci-fi, superhero, gritty dark movies and TV shows, where there is a lot of "hard" colors and textures like metal, neon etc. Even when films like this are shot on Alexa they look like RED, because colorists bring them to this kind of look in post. Alexa on the other hand is great for drama and more personal films that deal more with what;s on the inside. That's how I see it.
 
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Phil Holland said:
Absolutely, but there are entities where Arri at the moment doesn't qualify as a camera to be used on set. Just putting that out there.

Won't get you fired, but also won't get you the job.
Click to expand...


Arri is the only company that has developed an special upscaling algorithm that make the content especially good for 4k.
As Roger Deakins says :"2K Alexa Footage Up-Resed to IMAX Looks 'Superb'"

Pat
 
To add to what Phil stated: Currently some content providers and creators are requiring 4K Raw production. Netflix is one of those. They are spending 5 billion on new content. None of that can be shot on Alexa 35.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Pros for Weapon
- 6K, creates better 4K outputs compared to the Alexas upscaling.
- 6K, enables more choices in post reframe, manipulation and stabilization without loosing debayer fidelity.
- 6K, a wider field of view that gives almost a half step to vista vision field of view compared to Alexa s35mm only.
- Weight, slightly lighter than the Mini.
- Modularity, can be modified far more than the Mini.
- Gets less warm than the Mini.
- Fool control
- HDRx mode
- Choices in OLPFs
- Better RAW handling with arguably the best RAW codec available (R3D).
- Editing proxies. Arri went by the "Shoot > Edit" slogan before, but in order to do high end 4K work you might not be able to edit like that, with Weapon you get flexible edit-easy proxies on the fly right beside the RAW files.
- A lot of third party integration with the camera.
- Content providers sometimes want pure 4K from 4K+ cameras, the Mini doesn't reach that resolution (Netflix etc.)

Pros for the mini
- Brand
- Reliable
- Some argue, better color science but according to most tests both cameras are equally good in that regard.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Pros for Weapon
- 6K, creates better 4K outputs compared to the Alexas upscaling.
- 6K, enables more choices in post reframe, manipulation and stabilization without loosing debayer fidelity.
- 6K, a wider field of view that gives almost a half step to vista vision field of view compared to Alexa s35mm only.
- Weight, slightly lighter than the Mini.
- Modularity, can be modified far more than the Mini.
- Gets less warm than the Mini.
- Fool control
- HDRx mode
- Choices in OLPFs
- Better RAW handling with arguably the best RAW codec available (R3D).
- Editing proxies. Arri went by the "Shoot > Edit" slogan before, but in order to do high end 4K work you might not be able to edit like that, with Weapon you get flexible edit-easy proxies on the fly right beside the RAW files.
- A lot of third party integration with the camera.
- Content providers sometimes want pure 4K from 4K+ cameras, the Mini doesn't reach that resolution (Netflix etc.)

Pros for the mini
- Brand
- Reliable
- Some argue, better color science but according to most tests both cameras are equally good in that regard.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the great ammunition
 
I picked the weapon and raven...up to you though
 
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i add ALexa Mini:

Pro:
- Nd integrate ( i like this)
- lds lens
- wcu 4 (is great remotely)
- UHD prores in 4444XQ/4444

Cons:
- Evf viewfinder (sorry but it is much better than the bomb oled of Red or classic on ALexa ev / xt)

i add for Weapon:

- Very fast upload 3D lut , compatible with pc or mac .. example export from Resolve and update in camera directly.



in the context, I think now that Weapon is the best camera.
BUT always it depends on your needs.


And then I would expect the NAB;) maybe there is' something new;)
 
luigivaltulini said:
i add ALexa Mini:

Pro:
- UHD prores in 4444XQ/4444
Click to expand...

Compared to R3D 6K? I never get the "Pros" of UHD ProRes over R3D RAW. I get ProRes LT as proxies being a huge benefit, but UHD 4444XQ is just inferior. Also, the Weapon CF can do UHD 4444 and XQ so I don't know the benefit of the Mini on that?
 
steve green said:
Why does the Weapon have a green cast to the footage?
Click to expand...

What do You mean green...the beard, man! :biggrin:

2v7yyaf.jpg


2h6c2f9.jpg
 
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