April shipping update

[Marco Hanna]

Right, well right now they are as well. It's just the packages which are on hold until April 8th for RAVEN. Only due to accessory availability. Though RAVEN brains are still being allocated alongside W. At a slower rate, yes, but only because it just began shipping while the W has been shipping since February 17th. They have the production for W down while they are still fine tuning the line for RAVEN. Two completely new cameras haha. Not the easiest thing to do

im hoping to go by what brent said and he confirmed they both will be simultaneously being allocated.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Jarred,
I know you've addressed this before, however considering the huge backorder and a possible future hit on expected inventory, can you please allow a swap within the bundled items that comes with WMG upgrade? especially DSMC² REDVOLT XL Module with Base I/O V-Lock Expander. I want to assume alot of guys have invested in v-lock as their powering system vs the Redvolt XL. I know you clearly communicated that the bundle was a gift to make the transition easier on the wallet but here's the catch-22; to use the REDVOLT XL Module as the primary powering option implies an additional $2k investment (2 XL chargers and 4 Redvolt XL batteries min), and then the vlock batteries go EOL. If not, then Base I/O V-Lock Expander or any 3rd party mod + Base Expander, then a $1k REDVOLT XL Module sits on the shelf. Either way there's a loss in the system. Either the vlocks go eol + additional $2k or a $1k REDVOLT XL Module sits on the shelf, thats a loss-loss situation, but if you guys reconsider and allow a swap, (and guys are willing to wait regarding inventory implication), then its a win-win. I can imagine logistical nightmare right from supply chain management to inventory allocation, but if swap is allowed and addressed early on, I think it will be much easier especially feeding back into the supply chain.
Thanks, either ways the bundle is much appreciated. Just trying to find an optimal value.

 

[Nick Fury]

Hey any idea when non forged 8ks will allocate? Or even an idea where I'm at on the list? thx

Forged 8K follows NAB 2015 Preorders (forged dod not even exist as an order option) that included prepay for 8K sensor, unless something has changed??

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Charles Bergquist]

Jarred,

The real question is....are you developing a high speed camera?

 

[Kristin Stewart]

Shipping did start when we said it would. Starting ship date doesn't mean everyone that ordered their camera gets them all that same day... that only happens with software and things that nobody wants.

Well, it also happens with computers (Apple), food, clothes, etc... In fact announcing products and being able to deliver them only 6 months later creates more bad things than good ones, judging by the number of frustrated people ;-)

The day companies will stop communicating and start delivering will be a great day for Humanity ;-)

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Haha, EXACTLY! I'm not in that group, but how has ALL the focus been on Raven-switchers (again, could have been as little as $500 refundable. literally no skin in the game) and Scarlet-D upgraders are mentioned virtually nowhere? That's what I meant when I was saying that all of this sort of flies in the face of why I wanted to switch to RED. I'm seeing preorder customers get preferential treatment on what is essentially an up-sell over people who have put tens of thousands of dollars into owning a Scarlet-D.

tl;dr

The Scarlet-W queue goes Raven switchers, Dragon owners, THEN Scarlet Preorders? WTF.

Both Raven switchers and Scarlet-W day one pre-orderers are correct in their logic. RED's already made their decision on who's in front, though.

RED is not going to stockpile extremely rare accessories just for Raven package pre-orders.




--

I'm not in the Scarlet-W queue so I have zero skin in that game, but what you're saying is that the priority is currently:

1) People who preordered Raven from September to Scarlet-W announcement.

2) People who have a Dragon already and preordered Scarlet-W with a discount on the full package price.

3) Day 1 Scarlet-W pre-orders.


If that's how it's going, that's a little bit screwy. I thought it was Dragon Owners, Raven Pre-orders, Scarlet-W pre-orders.

HOWEVER, Dragon owners are getting the package at a discount just for owning a previous camera. That's a crazy idea by RED. Usually in business you don't discount the price of the next-gen products because you know you can milk your customers for all their $$$, but that's not a nice thing to do, and RED knows this. I think in exchange, they're asking for a bit of patience while they get all the first time REDusers, who are paying full price their cameras. So there is that aspect.

--

Here's both sides of the Raven Switcher VS Scarlet-W pre-order argument:

RAVEN: If I ordered a 4K Raven even though I really wanted a 5K DSMC 2 camera that did not exist at the time, and then found out that exact camera was announced two months later, and would ship one month earlier than me, I would absolutely want the chance to switch, pay the extra money, and get in line for that camera.


Scarlet-W: If I was following REDuser constantly, reading into what Jarred said, and knew that a 5K DSMC 2 WOULD be announced between September and NAB, then I should be rewarded for doing the responsible thing, which is not getting in line for a less capable camera, and waiting to get in the correct queue from the get go.


There truly is no 100% correct way to set up the queue.

--

Jordan L: I know you're bent about not having accessories saved for the "first 10 min from announcement" Raven package orders but EVERYONE is ahead of us in regards to priority. Especially Weapon/Scarlet-W packages -- I'm right behind you on that queue, I can feel your pain. So many things are on constraint though. Think about how pissed you would be if you dropped $35,000 on an upgrade package but YOUR package is not shipping because there's 100 accessories just sitting on a shelf waiting to be allocated to $10,000 Raven packages. For our orders at least, it will all be sorted out before NAB. Sure, it's not March 17th, but it's closer to being in our hands now than it's ever been.

--

Also, I disagree with Raven being aimed at the DSLR/BM crowd. RED doesn't play in that market, and i'm sure they're not losing any sleep over it. (if they even get any in the first place!) Surely, people are jumping up from the DSLR to entry-level cinema with Raven, or mid-level cinema with Scarlet-W. To them, $500 or $1,000 is a lot of money to deposit on a product that they know they're not going to have for at least 6 months. Even if it is refundable.


--

So yeah, what I don't understand, is:

Why Raven pre-order switchers are coming before current Dragon owners in the S-W queue.

Why I can switch my Raven to a S-W order and cut in line even though i've had MONTHS to decide if I wanted to do that or not. It's awesome for me. Sucks for everyone that's behind.


​Why RED continues to do this when it would be easier to just flip the bird (haha) and say "Leave us alone, it ships in July"

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Well, it also happens with computers (Apple), food, clothes, etc... In fact announcing products and being able to deliver them only 6 months later creates more bad things than good ones, judging by the number of frustrated people ;-)

Exactly! Because food, clothes, and the world's largest company in the galaxy all make things that are just as simple to manufacture as a digital cinema camera.


Jarred, Brent (and Jim) --- for what it's worth, i'm not frustrated. I get what you're doing is insanely difficult. You've got my patience. But it hurts to log onto REDuser to see people take a dump on the work you guys are doing, especially when you've come so far in the past decade.

 

[Brody_B]

The day companies will stop communicating and start delivering will be a great day for Humanity ;-)

Companies need to always communicate... This one in particular keeps me believing in their system because of the amount of communication they have with us, even from the president who calls himself a Fire Chief. When was the last time you had a chat with the president of Apple? Its because of that communication we all receive that I have trust these guys are working hard to put things together.

It's obviously no easy feat to put the resources together to create as many cameras as Red needs to support this demand. Imagine a complete blackout of communication, no thanks. They are doing everything in their power to get these cameras out ASAP, cause why wouldn't they?, they profit from every shipment and lose from every delay.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Companies need to always communicate... This one in particular keeps me believing in their system because of the amount of communication they have with us, even from the president who calls himself a Fire Chief. When was the last time you had a chat with the president of Apple? Its because of that communication we all receive that I have trust these guys are working hard to put things together.

It's obviously no easy feat to put the resources together to create as many cameras as Red needs to support this demand. Imagine a complete blackout of communication, no thanks. They are doing everything in their power to get these cameras out ASAP, cause why wouldn't they?, they profit from every shipment and lose from every delay.

Excellent first post.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Jordan,

He did say that a few dozen would be going out the first few allocations. Production will ramp up in April for RAVEN, and by this time next month it should be full steam ahead! (Hopefully W will be taken care of by then and the focus will be all on RAVEN.)

Correct. Right now Scarlet-W is at speed and Raven is at 2 miles an hour.

Within the month it'd be a safe bet to say that both will be running at their fastest pace for quite some time until the backlog is cleared. At that point, RED can change the manufacturing lines into whatever insane creation they decide to whip up next.

But Jordan is correct: They are not going to deliver every single Scarlet-W camera pre-order THEN deliver Ravens. They're doing both. It just seems like Scarlet is moving at a million miles an hour compared to Raven because its production line is at speed, and there are less Scarlet-W orders, so it looks like they're absolutely plowing through the queue when really it all comes down to the fact that, yeah, there are very, very many pre-orders, but there are less for S-W than Raven, so that line moves quicker.

 

[Brody_B]

Excellent first post.

;-)

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Already covered that with my last update. The next Batch of 8k sensors comes out of the oven next week which is still on track from my last March update. They take 2 weeks to go through the QC process so actual 8k cameras should roll out right around NAB time. Impossible to know how many.. as the 8k are the cream of the crop and very few come out alive. Could be 100 sensors, could be 1 sensor.

My best advice is don't plan your shoots around the 8K... they come in slowly, they go out slowly and are far and few in between. They are one little tiny notch on the dial before the impossible mark.

If there were not so many 8ks out shooting some really big things right now in Atlanta and Japan and London you could almost bet against them even existing.. Straddling the land of Unicorns and Mermaids. And along that vain of unbelievable things.. they are just as extraordinary.

Ha ha...

Love this one!!

I can NOT even begin to say what is that I am prepping in the 8K field... Something truly exceptional it is happening out there... Way more then people even imagine... NAB 2016 will be an interesting one.

In my opinion the only thing you have understated in the above post is the calling of the Weapon 8k "extraordinary" as in MY opinion it represents more then "JUST" extraordinary...

To me it is "F U C K I N G EXTRAORDINARY"

To date I haven't put as much money and effort and gotten as much support for anything in the likes of the "8k VentuRED" because I believe that RED has truly made the impossible possible on this one and brought a tool that will allow the showcasing of imagery in ways that will redefine "WOW" factor.

 

[Kristin Stewart]

Companies need to always communicate... This one in particular keeps me believing in their system because of the amount of communication they have with us, even from the president who calls himself a Fire Chief. When was the last time you had a chat with the president of Apple? Its because of that communication we all receive that I have trust these guys are working hard to put things together.

It's obviously no easy feat to put the resources together to create as many cameras as Red needs to support this demand. Imagine a complete blackout of communication, no thanks. They are doing everything in their power to get these cameras out ASAP, cause why wouldn't they?, they profit from every shipment and lose from every delay.

In fact I'm not interested in having a chat with Apple's CEO. What I'm interested in, is being able to buy a product when it's announced. I'm interested in the product. We've been using Red cameras since the very beginning. And you, when did you buy your latest Red camera ?

 

[Josh Becker]

So yeah, what I don't understand, is:

Why Raven pre-order switchers are coming before current Dragon owners in the S-W queue.

Why I can switch my Raven to a S-W order and cut in line even though i've had MONTHS to decide if I wanted to do that or not. It's awesome for me. Sucks for everyone that's behind.


​Why RED continues to do this when it would be easier to just flip the bird (haha) and say "Leave us alone, it ships in July"

Right, that's why I feel like the whole "switch and keep your time stamp" should have been valid for the first couple weeks, maybe to the end of December. The reality is that if people saw the Scarlet-W announcement (just like all of us) they could have switched and been toward the front of the queue anyway. Not only have you and a ton of others had months to decide to switch over, it sounds like you still can decide to switch and get ahead in line. For all I know, days like yesterday (where Jarred said they've gotten a ton of switchers in about 8 hours) could mean I don't see my camera for an additional week (or more?)

EDIT:

There are really two big benefits to RED by letting Raven-switchers jump to the head of the queue: It reduces what sounds like an overloaded Raven queue and it also pulls in extra money for RED in the up-sell to Scarlet-W. So maybe having those things in the back of my head is what makes all of this feel less like a gesture of goodwill and more like just a smart business decision (at possibly the expense of disappointed folks like me and Scarlet-D upgraders). And ultimately, I bet 90% of people who preordered the Scarlet-W don't even read these forums, so they'll just assume RED shipped late and move on. In the end, RED lightens their Raven load and makes more money.

 

[Sean Tierney]

​Why RED continues to do this when it would be easier to just flip the bird (haha) and say "Leave us alone, it ships in July"

April fiools is right around the corner...

Were like one big bus of kids headed on vacation kicking the seat screaming "are we there yet?!?"

The RED team has nerves of steel. I'm sure there's a process to this "switcher" madness so cameras get out ASAP! Just a little while longer and we'll all be there!

 

[Marco Hanna]

Josh you are absolutely right. I completely understand the whole PRE-W swapper thing. That makes ethical sense. However, I ordered RAVN after the announcement of W because I felt that RAVEN fit my needs more than the Scarlet-W. That also means I'm fairly low on the queue which I knew that.

However, the fact that tomorrow I can call my rep, switch over to W and receive a W BEFORE NAB is absolutely crazy. Is it right? I can't say yes or no. If you are a strict W ordered or a S-D upgrades, yeah it totally sucks. I wish it didn't. But you are absolutely correct in saying it's more a of power play. It all makes sense now. I think they sold loads and loads of RAVENs and their profit margin wasn't great. So not only are they raising the price after NAB but they are letting people hop over from RAVEN to W because they no people like us come without the patience skill. And while yesterday I said I would stay with RAVEN, the more I think about it the more it's itching me to call them first thing tomorrow morning to tell them I'd like one Scarlet-W please....

Still undecided. Ugh.

Right, that's why I feel like the whole "switch and keep your time stamp" should have been valid for the first couple weeks, maybe to the end of December. The reality is that if people saw the Scarlet-W announcement (just like all of us) they could have switched and been toward the front of the queue anyway. Not only have you and a ton of others had months to decide to switch over, it sounds like you still can decide to switch and get ahead in line. For all I know, days like yesterday (where Jarred said they've gotten a ton of switchers in about 8 hours) could mean I don't see my camera for an additional week (or more?)

EDIT:

There are really two big benefits to RED by letting Raven-switchers jump to the head of the queue: It reduces what sounds like an overloaded Raven queue and it also pulls in extra money for RED in the up-sell to Scarlet-W. So maybe having those things in the back of my head is what makes all of this feel less like a gesture of goodwill and more like just a smart business decision (at possibly the expense of disappointed folks like me and Scarlet-D upgraders). And ultimately, I bet 90% of people who preordered the Scarlet-W don't even read these forums, so they'll just assume RED shipped late and move on. In the end, RED lightens their Raven load and makes more money.

 

[Kevin D'Haeze]

So.. as many of you that have been notified that your Weapon or Scarlet-W or Raven brain is ready but your accessories are not, it's probably best for me to just lay out what the accessories are in back-order and what the "caught up " date is for them. Meaning, when current orders for these accessories will be allocated.

Wow, Black Magic... everyone else... pay attention! THIS is how you communicate to your buyers about a new gear launch... nicely done.

 

[Ugo Del]

I still don't understand. From Jarred's update message, if someone ordered a raven in january let's say, and switch to scarlet now, he will be fulfilled before NAB. Does that mean that the guys who upgraded from their scarlet-D or the ones who directly ordered a new scarlet just after the december announcement will be allocated among switchers considering their timestamps or will they have to wait until all switchers are fulfilled (even guys who ordered a Raven last tuesday and switched on friday)?

 

[jordan levy]

I still don't understand. From Jarred's update message, if someone ordered a raven in january let's say, and switch to scarlet now, he will be fulfilled before NAB. Does that mean that the guys who upgraded from their scarlet-D or the ones who directly ordered a new scarlet just after the december announcement will be allocated among switchers considering their timestamps or will they have to wait until all switchers are fulfilled (even guys who ordered a Raven last tuesday and switched on friday)?

i know its hard to understand or decipher everything, especially with raven that is barely mentioned in updates. i wish there was a formula you could calculate or something haha. the best i can figure out by asking tons of questions, mostly made more clear by brent, is that everything is time stamp orientated now, then on packages subject to availability on accessories included. according to brent there is no cuts in line and everything is by time stamp. so yes, if you ordered a raven first, before the scarlet-w announcement, then you are first in the scarlet-w que. EVERYTHING else is by time stamp, no cuts, no priority for dragon upgraders, etc.
btw, he then updated and said there has been so many switchers after the april update he posted that now they might not be all fulfilled before nab. those late raven orders, then switchers have no priority over people that preordered scarlet-w earlier…time stamp time stamp time stamp.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

I still don't understand. From Jarred's update message, if someone ordered a raven in january let's say, and switch to scarlet now, he will be fulfilled before NAB. Does that mean that the guys who upgraded from their scarlet-D or the ones who directly ordered a new scarlet just after the december announcement will be allocated among switchers considering their timestamps or will they have to wait until all switchers are fulfilled (even guys who ordered a Raven last tuesday and switched on friday)?

I don't understand either, although I'm pretty sure once we hit the point in the queue where the Scarlet-W was announced, it's all based on time stamp. So if I bought a Raven today, then swapped to Scarlet-W, then my time stamp is for the end of March, not at the tail end of everyone switching from Raven, THEN ordering a Scarlet. I'm pretty sure that's what they're doing.