April shipping update

[Reuben Evans]

Au contraire: Oliver Williamson's Nobel Prize Lecture in Economics explains it perfectly. TL;DR: a firm's true value is not measured based on instant price and production statistics, but based on its long-term contractual agreements with customers. The RED upgrade program has made me a long-term customer, as evidenced by the fact that I've upgraded both my pre-WEAPON cameras to WEAPON.

Honestly, when I first read the NAB announcement of Weapon MG and saw the prices, my reaction, too, was "this makes absolutely no sense economically" compared to my already-paid-for EPIC-M Dragon and SCARLET DRAGON. But I rallied, got my orders in before the NAB window closed, and so glad I did. WEAPON is the platform DRAGON has been waiting for.

Wow. So many smart things in one post! Sometimes I think half the value of using RED is this forum

 

[jordan levy]

No problem. I know this can all be super confusing and unfortunately that confusion comes with us trying to take care of those who have been along for the ride the longest. It is a total clusterfuck.. and it is easy to see why most companies don't do it.

The logistical disaster we create with our upgrade programs and the extra expense to carry the priority carryover makes absolutely no sense economically... but our customers are like our family and sometimes you do things for your family that simply just don't make much sense. But it feels like the right thing to do.. so we do it.

agreed, i really think you should of kept it to weapon and raven until after nab, announced a scarlet/epic-w would happen, but cut yourselves a break!

 

[Michael Dalton]

No 8k sensor update? I have a project that is hanging the wind that requires it and I've be hoping that March was going to be my month.

 

[Taylor Morrison]

Any news on the Redvolt Expander Module? I didn't see any mention of it. Expected delivery?

 

[Rakesh Malik]

agreed, i really think you should of kept it to weapon and raven until after nab, announced a scarlet/epic-w would happen, but cut yourselves a break!

I'm kind of glad that they didn't, even though it's created more suspense since I'm still not sure where my order will land as far as fulfillment goes. I started paying attention because of the Raven, though I didn't bit on that one due to not having an interchangable mount... but the Scarlet-W got me over the fence. I had a pre-order in for another camera that just start shipping also... if Red had waited until after NAB to announce the Scarlet-W, I'd still be awaiting that other one instead of a Scarlet-W...

The Scarlet is a lot more expensive and all, but also most likely a much better long-term investment, so I don't regret it. I'm just getting started in the business of film, so it might take a little bit to recoup the cost, but I'll do it. And then escape from my desk job in the process.

 

[jordan levy]

I'm kind of glad that they didn't, even though it's created more suspense since I'm still not sure where my order will land as far as fulfillment goes. I started paying attention because of the Raven, though I didn't bit on that one due to not having an interchangable mount... but the Scarlet-W got me over the fence. I had a pre-order in for another camera that just start shipping also... if Red had waited until after NAB to announce the Scarlet-W, I'd still be awaiting that other one instead of a Scarlet-W...

The Scarlet is a lot more expensive and all, but also most likely a much better long-term investment, so I don't regret it. I'm just getting started in the business of film, so it might take a little bit to recoup the cost, but I'll do it. And then escape from my desk job in the process.

it sounds like it wouldnt of made a difference to you though, because you didnt preorder the raven, so you are not getting your scarlet until after nab, so yes, announce it, take orders but i was just saying not to squeeze in actual deliveries, when first of all its taking away form raven pkgs, so im biased, but also most people's scarlet-w are paper weights right now, the editing software incompatibly issues as well as battery issues, which i think have been fixed, but most cant tell because they are still waiting on modules. anyway, it doesnt sound like that would of effected you, you heard about raven, then ordered a scarlet, youll be getting it after nab, same as if what i was saying. it's trying to deliver all these and promises that is driving them and us crazy now, hahaha.

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I just meant that if they weren't doing this, I would probably end up with the other camera I had pre-ordered... a large part of what convinced me to make the jump was the customer service, not just the camera.

 

[jordan levy]

I just meant that if they weren't doing this, I would probably end up with the other camera I had pre-ordered... a large part of what convinced me to make the jump was the customer service, not just the camera.

the BM4.6k?
well you made the right move, though they are actually available now, the investment cost for a camera system that is rarely taken seriously professionally is a mistake. i commend them in the micro cinema though i have cancelled my orders for those too mainly because of the closeness of the NAB date and want to see what else it out there as far as tiny cameras…plus this raven thing has me wrapped up in preparation.

 

[Logan Meis]

Thanks for the updated! My only confusion is where you said Raven orders made after Scarlet announcement, then switched would be fulfilled by NHB. Say someone ordered Raven the day after Scarlet was announced, then later switched to Scarlet. Do they have priority over those who ordered Scarlet first day of availability? Or will all first day Scarlet orders be allocated by NHB?

 

[jordan levy]

Thanks for the updated! My only confusion is where you said Raven orders made after Scarlet announcement, then switched would be fulfilled by NHB. Say someone ordered Raven the day after Scarlet was announced, then later switched to Scarlet. Do they have priority over those who ordered Scarlet first day of availability? Or will all first day Scarlet orders be allocated by NHB?

what's NHB? NAB you mean?
no, i think you are in line behind people who ordered scarlet first in your case.

 

[Rakesh Malik]

the BM4.6k?
well you made the right move, though they are actually available now, the investment cost for a camera system that is rarely taken seriously professionally is a mistake. i commend them in the micro cinema though i have cancelled my orders for those too mainly because of the closeness of the NAB date and want to see what else it out there as far as tiny cameras…plus this raven thing has me wrapped up in preparation.

They're great for building a reel and experience, but I've always regarded them as stepping stones toward higher end kit that IS taken seriously professionally.

 

[Logan Meis]

I was simultaneously reading an article about an old music group called NHB haha yes I did mean NAB. So if that is the case then that would mean all day one Scarlet orders would be allocated by NAB. I figured if that was the case though, Jarrod would have come straight forward and said it. See my confusion? Or am I just confusing everyone else now?

what's NHB? NAB you mean?
no, i think you are in line behind people who ordered scarlet first in your case.

 

[Elsie N]

No 8k sensor update? I have a project that is hanging the wind that requires it and I've be hoping that March was going to be my month.

I was hoping for news on this front as well. I would delay and shoot an upcoming project on 8k if the sensor swap happens soon enough.

 

[Josh Becker]

If you ordered a RAVEN BEFORE the SCARLET-W announcement, and then switched to SCARLET-W, you should be fulfilled in the next week or so ( up to the 5th )

If you ordered a RAVEN AFTER the SCARLET-W announcement, and then switched to SCARLET-W, you should be fulfilled after the above, but before NAB.

So... where do those of us who just preordered a Scarlet-W with no upgrade or Raven-switching stand? I can't think of a reason why someone placing a Raven preorder *after* December 10th, then later deciding to switch to Scarlet-W, should be given any priority over those of us who placed a Scarlet-W preorder immediately.

Of course, like you said there is the whole variable of accessories. I ordered the base I/O package, so maybe your statement only pertains to the brains.

Just please tell me that post-Dec10 Raven orders (that then switched to Scarlet-W) AREN'T getting priority over Dec 10th Scarlet-W preorders. Because that would be pretty shitty if some dude could order a Raven in January, then switch to Scarlet-W in February, and somehow get a camera before those of us who preordered within hours of the Scarlet-W announcement. Second statement just has me wondering where us non-switchers stand...

 

[jordan levy]

So... where do those of us who just preordered a Scarlet-W with no upgrade or Raven-switching stand? I can't think of a reason why someone placing a Raven preorder *after* December 10th, then later deciding to switch to Scarlet-W, should be given any priority over those of us who placed a Scarlet-W preorder immediately.

Of course, like you said there is the whole variable of accessories. I ordered the base I/O package, so maybe your statement only pertains to the brains.

Just please tell me that post-Dec10 Raven orders (that then switched to Scarlet-W) AREN'T getting priority over Dec 10th Scarlet-W preorders. Because that would be pretty shitty if some dude could order a Raven in January, then switch to Scarlet-W in February, and somehow get a camera before those of us who preordered within hours of the Scarlet-W announcement. Second statement just has me wondering where us non-switchers stand...

no, i think at that point it will be going by time stamps, as far as i can tell with brents clarification, it's by time stamps here on out with accessory availability.
so if they did order a raven before scarlets were able to order, then switched, then yes, they have an earlier time stamp, but if the raven order was after scarlet preorders started, then switched, then no.

 

[Josh Becker]

no, i think at that point it will be going by time stamps, as far as i can tell with brents clarification, it's by time stamps here on out with accessory availability.
so if they did order a raven before scarlets were able to order, then switched, then yes, they have an earlier time stamp, but if the raven order was after scarlet preorders started, then switched, then no.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking/hoping. But I don't think I've seen them address just normal preorders. All the talk has been regarding Brain vs. Pkg and Raven-switchers. I'm just hoping that if post-Dec10 Raven-switchers are possibly going to get cameras before NAB, that means I'm in that group as well. Unless Jarred was talking about Brain-only, which he may have been.

 

[Marco Hanna]

I think this part has many people confused or worried. So as I read this and your later clarification of the shipping, I'll just ask point blank. So as I understand, you guys are going to blast PRE SCARLET-W RAVEN pre-orders who swapped over to SCARLET-W by end of month. For those who have packages, it might take a bit longer due to accessory availability.

Then, you say that people who switched from RAVEN to W, up until end of next week, that had RAVEN pre-ordered AFTER W announcement will get their blast before NAB.

But what does that mean for people who ordered Scarlet-W (not including S-D upgrades)? I'm a little confused in that it either appears that RAVEN pre-orders who pre-ordered after the W announcement get a priority over S-W pre-orders, or that you guys are going to kick some serious ass and allocated people who bought a S-W from pre-W up until next week in the two weeks prior to NAB.

If that's the case, I'll gladly switch my RAVEN order to W to get a camera before NAB but it doesn't seem 'right'. Also, any RAVEN updates? Still rolling out slowly I feel, and I know the priority right now is S-W. Though, once you guys get handle on all the S-W orders, how do you plan on tackling the yacht-loads of RAVEN orders?

Thanks, again from everyone! Including myself

We were hoping to catch up with all the orders where people had Raven orders pre-Scarlet-W announcement and then switched those to Scarlet-W by the end of the month but because of the back-order on accessories its likely going to take us another week or so.

If you switched from Raven to Scarlet-W (till the end of next week) and had your RAVEN order in after the Scarlet-W announcement, you are looking at a before NAB ship date.

 

[jordan levy]

Sorry, jordan, don't know how else to explain it other than my last post. But I will try. Even though I think Alexander seems to be explaining it better than me at times!

Since we have been shipping SCARLET-W for longer and there are less orders, we are fulfilling later time stamps. Hypothetical: We have 5x brains of SCARLET-W come off the line and 5x RAVEN. They each get allocated from 10x available accessories on same day, but timestamp of SCARLET-W is later since that is where we are at in queue. So, we are not "prioritizing" SCARLET-W here, it is all relative due to where we are at in that queue.



False.

I am going to call it a night on that one, folks...

marco, i think this finally explained it best, all brain preorders before dec 10th, either it be raven or scarlet will be filled by end of the month. packages will start on april 8th, due to vlock expander being held up. raven packages will take longer to get out because there are so many more, so mostly likely the first couple of days only i see getting out before nab.
so it should all default now to timestamps for either camera, but packages are held up until availability.

 

[Marco Hanna]

Okay, so as I understand it now, once RED gets through pre-W swappers they will go by time stamp? So if I ordered a W on Dec. 10 and another ordered a RAVEN on Dec. 11th, but then switched to W a few days later, the person with the Dec.10 W order only wil receive the allocation prior to the RAVEN swapper after W?

Though, still doesn't explain that statement Jarred said!

marco, i think this finally explained it best, all brain preorders before dec 10th, either it be raven or scarlet will be filled by end of the month. packages will start on april 8th, due to vlock expander being held up. raven packages will take longer to get out because there are so many more, so mostly likely the first couple of days only i see getting out before nab.
so it should all default now to timestamps for either camera, but packages are held up until availability.

 

[Joel Voelker]

Any word on the redvolt expander?