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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anyone else feeling a bit uneasy?

I was actually pleasantly surprised with the footage given the conditions. I have shot in some shitty lit gyms and rooms like that and with no additional lighting you can't expect much.
 
I have faith that the first footage trickling out was just unfortunate circumstances for the camera. But it's natural
that the people are nervous when these are the first images out of such a highly anticipated camera that hasn't had its debut yet. It strikes a nerve in many people who have put a lot of money down on the first 'budget' camera from Red, everyone has a few 1st generation tech experiences that they regret, and ofcourse images like this reminds us of them. Did we pull the trigger on a half-baked product? Should we have waited? Is this why it's cheaper? I think those questions are expected, but most likely unjust. It's natural to jump to conclusions when that's the first thing we see. But I think these impressions will change and get stomped soon enough.
 
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Kris Tait said:
I have faith that the first footage trickling out was just unfortunate circumstances for the camera. But it's natural
that the people are nervous when these are the first images out of such a highly anticipated camera that hasn't had its debut yet. It strikes a nerve in many people who have put a lot of money down on the first 'budget' camera from Red, everyone has a few 1st generation tech experiences that they regret, and ofcourse images like this reminds us of them. Did we pull the trigger on a half-baked product? Should we have waited? Is this why it's cheaper? I think those questions are expected, but most likely unjust. It's natural to jump to conclusions when that's the first thing we see. But I think these impressions will change and get stamped soon enough.
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I certainly believed that following was the first footage from Raven... and right after that... I had decided to move forward with it so ordered few Ravens (I will stick with it). Try understand what Bob said, "The magic to good footage is still hard work."

 
Kris Tait said:
I admit, I share some concern. Even under identical and worse lighting circumstances I haven't seen Red footage that looked so much like Sony...the organic feel isn't there in any of the clips, and that is actually concerning. But I can't imagine Red would let a camera out into the wild that wasn't family stamped. I just can't imagine that. So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that more footage will trickle out that looks closer to W's flavor here:
https://vimeo.com/160315302
Fingers crossed.
Kris
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I really liked the color and tonality of the dog on couch interior shots.. I felt it's more "organic" than my Sony F55 to be honest.

Later on the beach, do you know why your highlights came out clipped and towards the end had a pink tint? I think the coloured highlights could have been balanced out to white, but just curious what you post process was.. ie. just apply red defaults or did you hand-grade?

cheers, looking GREAT otherwise...
 
Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
After seeing that gym footage I can't help but think it is, after all, too good to be true. I know people will come up with the many excuses why it wouldn't look incredible (not a real test, compressed, soft etc), but I'm still having a hard time with this. For the extra $4500 (albeit a bit more across the border), and having the eventual intention of upgrading down the line I having a hard time not just switching to s-w right now. Am I alone here?
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You actually think the camera itself is what makes good cinematography or photography...?
 
I get it may be a bit premature on my part, but make no mistake that does not look like "great" footage. Is it in a terrible situation - yes, is this not a great test - yes, does that excuse the fact that the colour/depth of the image NOT look like what I expected it to be - to my wallet there is no excuse. I will admit to being a bit biased because I've been mulling over swapping to s-w for the PL/OLPF option and I've almost been looking for a reason to justify it. I put up $10k to buy a dragon with a smaller sensor and an Ef mount - my understanding was I was going to be looking at dragon 4K footage. From what I've seen, yes very shitty/quick and dirty tests - I don't see a reason for not just jumping on to scarlet w for the extra bit of cash. I do not understand the butt hurt caused by expressing a simple concern and the jump to defend the camera when the honest truth is that although it will probably be a pretty good camera for most indie productions/young dp's there's a chance it may not be the entry level cinema camera it has been marketed/hyped up to be. A bit pre mature on my part...maybe, but I've played with the r3d's and I'm not new to RED. Either I'm paranoid or it just doesn't strike me as the typical dragon footage I'm used to even in those shitty situations. Time will tell, but I'd rather put another 4500 up and garauntee my happiness and my investment than take that small chance it's not what I wanted. Not a terrible camera, from the very little I've seen just not what I was expecting.
 
im just uneasy about not having my camera yet!
 
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Dennis,

Thanks for the critique. This isn't my footage though, did I somehow give the impression that I shot this? The context was to compare recent scarlet-w footage with what we can hope for from the Raven. But I'm sure you can ask him what his grading workflow was if he's interested in some tips. He did write in his blog some words about precisely the clipped highlights. Follow the link...
 
I'd also recommend the Scarlet-W as it opens up more choices, especially lens choices with PL which is the best way to get a certain "look". Thing is that you judge the camera based on a web compressed footage shot under existing fluorescent lights. You would get the same image with an Arri, or a Sony or whatever. Even when doing documentary work it's easy to spot a good documentary photographer compared to a bad one. A bad one just films, a good one find composition, light and so on by planning when on location and filming, shooting hours of footage and pick out the ones that look good.

There are no shortcuts to great images, you either work with your eye and mind or the camera and only working with the camera always gets you bad images.
 
You're all right! I highly recommend everyone switch from Raven to Scarlet-W.....so I can get my Raven faster! :)
 
jordan levy said:
im uneasy about actually getting the camera, keep getting updated promises about ravens shipping and they never do, not even any package allocations. in preparation im buying accessories so i can actually use it once i get it, so my uneasiness comes from newer things being announced that take the place of thins ive already spent money on. i really thought id have it almost a month ago. at first we were told raven packages would ship in march, didnt happen, then we were told dozens will be allocated in the first rounds, didnt happen, then we were told they would be allocated and shipping simultaneously with scarelt-w pkgs by time stamp, never happened, many scarlet-w pkgs have been allocated and no raven ones. if we werent told any of this i cant help to think id be better off, like a few of my friends with orders not on reduser that have not bought a thing yet. if i knew we would not have the raven pkgs in our hands by NAB a month ago i would of went a different route on many things ive already bought. i love the updates and i like to think they are saying these things in our best interest, but it's really not helping and mostly adding to the frustration.
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seen you post on here a lot about it and i feel your pain. I'm waiting too, albeit much further back in line so seeing you not even being allocated has made me know that my wait is going to be brutal. Don't know if anyone has caught this yet, but if you go to Red's website right now and go to the raven packages, there is a notice that says "Orders placed today expect to be shipped in fall 2016". Just for perspective on how long they anticipate even current orders taking.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
You actually think the camera itself is what makes good cinematography or photography...?
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We are not talking about cinematography we are talking about the colour representation/depth/image quality of the camera - and when we are speaking about $10k worth of tech - specifically a camera it needs to do what I've been made to believe it should do. This discussion is not about cinematography and I don't need rule of thirds lessons bud - let's talk about the camera itself and save the "it's not about the toy it's about the boy" talk for discussions not pertaining directly to the toy itself.
 
It looks like RED footage in a run-n-gun situation, nothing different than what I would expect? It has every bit of the traits of the Carrion footage, if you were sold by that then there shouldn't be a real problem.

Not everyone's going to shoot a short film right out of the gate, Kwan's providing footage out of excitement and for those that want to see something early. Of course, from my own experience re: getting cameras very early, damned if you do.


VERY damned if you do.

The footage looks fine for the conditions. You should be able to extrapolate (or imagine, as a filmmaker =P) what potential it has in a narrative or commercial environment.

Hope you guys get your cams soon, but sometimes you just need to wait until they get it right or as close-to-right as possible. Pretty sure that's all they're doing, just trying to get it as close-to-right as possible.

(disclaimer: I don't have a horse in this race, other than more color work coming in. =D)
 
Again as others have said it looks like other RED footage put in the same situation so thats why people were "butt hurt" as you say.
 
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