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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anyone else feeling a bit uneasy?

Has anyone else noticed that on Red.com, both scarlet and raven brains and packages will not ship until Fall 2016 if ordered today? Doesn't seem like a good sign...
 
Yep and that doesn't make me feel better about receiving my camera before May.
 
Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
After seeing that gym footage I can't help but think it is, after all, too good to be true. I know people will come up with the many excuses why it wouldn't look incredible (not a real test, compressed, soft etc), but I'm still having a hard time with this. For the extra $4500 (albeit a bit more across the border), and having the eventual intention of upgrading down the line I having a hard time not just switching to s-w right now. Am I alone here?
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If you want I can shoot something just as bad on a 6k weapon no problem, it´s not at all difficult. Thats not what is so amazing with weapon / dragon sensor. Whats amazing is how good image you can actually get out of it. But it does not turn perfect just because somebody push the red button on the side.


You still need light, proper focus and focus range and good glass, especially on raven and especially if you shoot slomo / with a sensor crop.

But yes scarlet W is a much better camera, I would say twice as good but it also comes at twice the price. But with all the stuff bought before you got a working camera package that extra cost is not such big deal.
 
Hey Bjørn, you know what I think that actually might work. If you demonstrated that weapon gives identical results in similar circumstances, you might just quiet all the new natives. And I'm sure Jarred and Brent would appreciate not having this new shitstorm on their plate if it's all baseless worry anyway.

Serious, you really should actually do it. Would be a great service to everyone. Have a think about it. :)

Cheers
 
You should try shooting the same gym setup on film (35mm or 70mm even :D) and be amazed how bad it can turn up :), oh, and use the same Rokinon lens

Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
After seeing that gym footage I can't help but think it is, after all, too good to be true. I know people will come up with the many excuses why it wouldn't look incredible (not a real test, compressed, soft etc), but I'm still having a hard time with this. For the extra $4500 (albeit a bit more across the border), and having the eventual intention of upgrading down the line I having a hard time not just switching to s-w right now. Am I alone here?
Click to expand...
 
I live and work in NYC and I would LOVE to shoot some real world test footage with full lighting set ups. I did not dig that test footage released. Good gesture, but very flat and uninspiring. Sorry if that sounds negative.
 
Alessandro, just so you know, all new orders won't be shipped until Fall 2016, which may also entail recent switches. They announced it in Red.com today. You should speak to your rep. Let me know if it's not the case for you, I'm going to do the same if it's not a Fall shipment.
 
Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
We are not talking about cinematography we are talking about the colour representation/depth/image quality of the camera - and when we are speaking about $10k worth of tech - specifically a camera it needs to do what I've been made to believe it should do. This discussion is not about cinematography and I don't need rule of thirds lessons bud - let's talk about the camera itself and save the "it's not about the toy it's about the boy" talk for discussions not pertaining directly to the toy itself.
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What are you talking about? If you use a camera with a shitty lens in shitty lighting with shitty knowledge you are gonna get bad images, doesn't matter if it's a Raven or an Alexa 65. The color representation is also affected by what RAW and color settings you use, in close relation to the mixed lighting situation. The lighting affects skin tones and how the environment bounce of surfaces and affect shadows and so on. The list can be made a mile long. So yes, it's absolutely based on the experience and knowledge of the user... the cinematographer. This is not about any rule of thirds or basic three-point lightning it's about knowing what the hell you are supposed to do with a professional grade camera and if the case were about how good an Iphone can be when doing a movie, then yes you could talk about the limitations it has. This however is down to the basics the same as shooting a Weapon 6K at 4K at the same compression ratios, it's the same sensor and color science. The same color science and sensor that shot Daredevil, which is shot at 4K just like this camera does.

Stop kidding yourself, this camera is giving you enormous cinematographic power at your finger tips, but if you're not a magician of any skill you won't do much but small puffs of smoke without any oohs and ahhs.
 
Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
I get it may be a bit premature on my part, but make no mistake that does not look like "great" footage. Is it in a terrible situation - yes, is this not a great test - yes, does that excuse the fact that the colour/depth of the image NOT look like what I expected it to be - to my wallet there is no excuse. I will admit to being a bit biased because I've been mulling over swapping to s-w for the PL/OLPF option and I've almost been looking for a reason to justify it. I put up $10k to buy a dragon with a smaller sensor and an Ef mount - my understanding was I was going to be looking at dragon 4K footage. From what I've seen, yes very shitty/quick and dirty tests - I don't see a reason for not just jumping on to scarlet w for the extra bit of cash. I do not understand the butt hurt caused by expressing a simple concern and the jump to defend the camera when the honest truth is that although it will probably be a pretty good camera for most indie productions/young dp's there's a chance it may not be the entry level cinema camera it has been marketed/hyped up to be. A bit pre mature on my part...maybe, but I've played with the r3d's and I'm not new to RED. Either I'm paranoid or it just doesn't strike me as the typical dragon footage I'm used to even in those shitty situations. Time will tell, but I'd rather put another 4500 up and garauntee my happiness and my investment than take that small chance it's not what I wanted. Not a terrible camera, from the very little I've seen just not what I was expecting.
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Alessandro, until you see an actual .R3D from this gym shoot, you cannot make any determinations about the "quality" of the footage.

You're just looking at that DP's "grade".

It's shot RAW.

Who knows what it originally looked like?

We should reserve judgement till we see an .R3D. Otherwise this is just guesswork, and soul draining angst that is doing noone...especially Raven early depositors any good.

A Raven is a 4K Weapon.

Look at anything Probst has shot for Taylor Swift. It's the same. Just 4K.
 
I'm confused here... If you really want to compare the Raven to the Scarlet W...

I believe this is the fairest comparison, thus far:

Raven ISO test

VERSUS

SCARLET-W ISO test

Everything else, unfair because its either not side by side, not same lighting situation, and/or not same site compression (i.e. vimeo vs. youtube).

Even the above 2 videos, are not really fair, because its not really side by side or same lighting conditions (you can't compare a match with a fireplace, thats like comparing a flashlight to a 1K Arri), but its still a decent estimate of the Raven's capabilities. Just fast forward the Raven ISO test to 1:13s to get it to ISO 2000, which is what the Scarlet-W video was all about.
 
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Nick, just so you know we have all had the original R3D file into RCX and tinkered with it. Kwan made it available for download in his thread. He put up 8 or so clips. Just wanted to let you know since it sounded like you hadn't seen them. It's in KHAN's footage thread in the Raven forum. Have a look and let us know what your thoughts still are. Really looking forward for more footage to trickle out, I'm sure this is just a one-off.
cheers
 
Kris Tait said:
Nick, just so you know we have all had the original R3D file into RCX and tinkered with it. Kwan made it available for download in his thread. He put up 8 or so clips. Just wanted to let you know since it sounded like you hadn't seen them. It's in KHAN's footage thread in the Raven forum. Have a look and let us know what your thoughts still are. Really looking forward for more footage to trickle out, I'm sure this is just a one-off.
cheers
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Ahhh...didn't know that. Fair enough!

I'll take a look later!
 
I'm perfectly content with shooting the same resolution and sensor as Daredevil and Jessica Jones to name a few. More people moving the SW, the better for us Raven buyers.
 
It's unbelievable that anyone would judge a camera based on a couple quick shots in a fluorescent-lit gym. The Alexa would look equally crap in that situation, and nobody complains about that camera.

But here is some really nice looking stuff to munch on! I noticed a fair amount of noise in some of the shots; Eric said he shot at a range of ISO's clear up to 2850. Now that I know that, I'm seriously impressed by how clean the image is overall. And of course, that color is really popping with the Dragon+STD OLPF

https://vimeo.com/162923582
 
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