Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing Weapon 6K Carbon Fiber

Thanks Phil...

one other question:
I too mount my Bomb EVF with a NATO rail and RED Spinner --- I would still like to use that with Weapon if possible..

Could anyone please shed some light on this?


Thanks Michael & Phil!


I run the ViewFinder to the front along a nato rail with a spinner... just in front of the MB. I am worried the lemo adapter thing will not allow this... can you see any problem there?

thanks

Michael
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
So you're advocating for having the cameras be the same internally, which they are not. And then have RED sell the Mg version of the camera for significantly less, at a loss, no doubt. Hoping that people will want to pay them down the road for certain features they want to unlock via firmware?

Sony and ARRI already do this. Even amongst the most die-hard ARRI fans I know, they think that business model is a steaming pile of horse poo.
Click to expand...


Errrrr. No. I was wondering if you could get either processor in either body.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Errrrr. No. I was wondering if you could get either processor in either body.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not as simple as a processor.... But there is no reason they can't put the magnesium body panels on a carbon Weapon brain. Jarred mentioned doing this for Mike "Fireman" Ross in another thread, since he was concerned about the CF being exposed to heat for his volcano shooting.
 
Volcano shooting sounds wild. You know its weird but when I was in chem class in school I would swear we used to burn strips of magnesium and that stuff was crazy. White hot and tough to put out.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Thanks for an extremely honest overview Phil. I think it is tricky for current Epic Dragon owners expressly because the performance enhancements in IQ are slim, and the codec Pro Res is adequate but not stellar. So in short, one is spending 20-40k at least for body change and some modest performance increase but this will not give one the immediate gratification of a greatly improved cam. And the 8k is great but for many good 4k is the goal for now. So tricky time for all in the decisions. I think these new cams are great for the new breed of first time buyer. But perhaps for current Epic Dragon owners another year or two of using what you have gives better ROI, and Red has stated the trade in values will be there for a good while yet so your current camera is not dead. IQ wise pretty it's much the same as the next gen.
Click to expand...

This one is going to be a tough decision for some and a very quick decision for others.

The market I work in has been more or less demanding certain features that are found in Weapon. Everything is based on the Dragon sensor, but there are going to be slight quality improvements that do have an importance. I think the smaller body plays a big role in some of this as well as both model Weapons get you down in weight. Outside of that the various improvements add up for me. The quieter camera, scratch mics, ProRes, 3D LUTs, WiFI, a large Black Shade improvement, internally accurate timecode (curious to see and learn more about this and what can be done with it), the data rates, etc.... The new cableless tech combined with the tiny body and weight makes Weapon pretty damn portable too, and I think that's important for some. The new modules are more compact and well thought out as well. Things like the JETPACK are going to be useful for so many types of handheld, stabilized, and gimbal setups.

Basically how I'm looking at it is that I know there's a hell of a lot more horsepower in Weapon and RED's going to push hard to make Weapon the top production cinema camera. That's pretty much what this is all about. The general info leads my imagination in certain directions and I think I have a feeling where some of this is going. Plus the eventual 8K Dragon sensor and larger format that I've been desiring for a very long time.

Your current Dragon bodies aren't dead and that's the correct way to look at it. Scarlet, Epic, Weapon are all right now based off of the Dragon sensor tech and will be for a while. But Weapon is the new "top of the line" body in that lineup. And productions will take note of that.


Michael Lindsay said:
one other question:

I run the ViewFinder to the front along a nato rail with a spinner... just in front of the MB. I am worried the lemo adapter thing will not allow this... can you see any problem there?
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason the LEMO cable can't string to wherever your nato rail is. The LEMO ADAPTER A faces outwards towards the lens too when mounted to the body.


Tarquin Cardona said:
Agree i like mag body more than the tweedy carbon look. And agree firmware unlock approach smart.
Click to expand...

The difficulty here is the components to get the processing power the same will end up costing more than the MG body today. Additionally RED provides free firmware updates adding features to cameras throughout the year and doesn't charge for that.

You want a camera that has hardware in it that is perfectly usable and you want to pay for a software/firmware/licenses just to be able to use it? I know that's how a couple of other camera companies do it, but I am dynamically apposed to this concept. But that's just my opinion.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Volcano shooting sounds wild. You know its weird but when I was in chem class in school I would swear we used to burn strips of magnesium and that stuff was crazy. White hot and tough to put out.
Click to expand...

Yep, magnesium has a relatively low oxidation point and can flash/ oxidize violently. The thin magnesium strips don't need much heat to get going and yes they burn white hot. More nefarious uses in schools include things like using magnesium ribbons to weld the hinges on someone's locker and other such things. Then again, I was probably the biggest prankster in our school. I was amazed I still had friends by the time I graduated from HS. Anyway, the magnesium found in the Weapon brains is an alloy and we don't know any specifics. But even if the magnesium were to flash burn, it's still at a point beyond what the plastic bits and camera internals could handle.

Carbon fiber is a different animal and the resistance to heat, UV, etc. are dependent upon the makeup of the resin in which the fibers are laid. Some types can be rather heat resilient, some not. Or I should say, most of the time not.

There is no one perfect material to use. Forged or milled carbon is probably the closest to it and titanium would be the ultimate in terms of taking abuse, magnesium and aluminum are not as robust as the titanium, but lighter. I'd wager that the forged carbon version of the Weapon brain Jarred showed off at NAB is a glimpse of things to come. But the internal frames of these cameras are still something else for now and the foreseeable future. And most likely they are currently aluminum and/or steel.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Yep, magnesium has a relatively low oxidation point and can flash/ oxidize violently. The thin magnesium strips don't need much heat to get going and yes they burn white hot. More nefarious uses in schools include things like using magnesium ribbons to weld the hinges on someone's locker and other such things. Then again, I was probably the biggest prankster in our school. I was amazed I still had friends by the time I graduated from HS. Anyway, the magnesium found in the Weapon brains is an alloy and we don't know any specifics. But even if the magnesium were to flash burn, it's still at a point beyond what the plastic bits and camera internals could handle.

Carbon fiber is a different animal and the resistance to heat, UV, etc. are dependent upon the makeup of the resin in which the fibers are laid. Some types can be rather heat resilient, some not. Or I should say, most of the time not.

There is no one perfect material to use. Forged or milled carbon is probably the closest to it and titanium would be the ultimate in terms of taking abuse, magnesium and aluminum are not as robust as the titanium, but lighter. I'd wager that the forged carbon version of the Weapon brain Jarred showed off at NAB is a glimpse of things to come. But the internal frames of these cameras are still something else for now and the foreseeable future. And most likely they are currently aluminum and/or steel.
Click to expand...

I want a Carbon Fiber Ford F-250. '-)
 
Wow that's some hardcore pranking:) Sodium being another source of crazy fun of course. As to Weapons of the Red variety. Something is telling me one would be wanting the innards of the CF for the greatest satisfaction whatever skin it is in.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I was delighted to get away from the aluminium mount of red one and love the Epic Ti mount... Apart for weight benifit reasons is Magnesium a step backward?
Click to expand...

NO, I would most definitely NOT called a step backward...

But also it depends in a lot of things, I of course do not know how exactly does RED process their Magnesium to make the Mag PL mount, how they used any particular Thermal Mechanical processing or otherwise to achieve what they have achieved for both the PL mount and the new Weapon Mag body parts.

But when the microstructure of the materials is well defined and controlled increasing strength exponentially then it's impact dampening resistance, capacities to reduce vibrations etc. you'll see Magnesium parts done right as a huge step forward, and of course especially also in consideration of been so light weight...

But Titanium is a bad ass material strong as hell... Also cheaper and easier to manufacturer i to parts then Mag. is.

I know I am going with the Mag PL mount on my personal Weapon Mag. 8k... :)
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I was delighted to get away from the aluminium mount of red one and love the Epic Ti mount... Apart for weight benifit reasons is Magnesium a step backward?
Click to expand...


Aluminum mount was not so bad, the filter cracks from stress before the mount melts - like on this poor red one that captured great footage until it just was a little too close to the action.



poor-red1.jpg
 
So what's the going price on the Switch blade side handle?
 
Don't care about weapon...side kick for the epic if someone is selling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top