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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the Epic/Dragon Vs. Alexa/Sony threads are belong to us...

thanks a lot luigi ...

but ... wait a moment .... i though that the new calibration ( and the gain in the highlight DR) was part of the new firmware ... but looks like that highlight extended DR is part of the OLPF ?

thanks
g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
thanks a lot luigi ...

but ... wait a moment .... i though that the new calibration ( and the gain in the highlight DR) was part of the new firmware ... but looks like that highlight extended DR is part of the OLPF ?

thanks
g
Click to expand...

If I haven't gotten this all wrong...

With new OLPF follows a hardwired new sensor calibration.

It is in THAT combo the "new" DR comes in.

On top of that, Jarred suggests latest Firmware for ALL Dragons, because THAT also gives you some better DR.

Makes sense, as I have seen the DR extend through firmware hacks already.

But the biggie is the OLPF/new calibration (hardcoded from RED HQ)
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
thanks a lot luigi ...

but ... wait a moment .... i though that the new calibration ( and the gain in the highlight DR) was part of the new firmware ... but looks like that highlight extended DR is part of the OLPF ?

thanks
g
Click to expand...

The extra DR comes from the new OLPF, right? But I believe to maximize the new OLPF's potential, it's suggested you work from the latest firmware.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
If I haven't gotten this all wrong...

With new OLPF follows a hardwired new sensor calibration.

It is in THAT combo the "new" DR comes in.

On top of that, Jarred suggests latest Firmware for ALL Dragons, because THAT also gives you some better DR.

Makes sense, as I have seen the DR extend through firmware hacks already.

But the biggie is the OLPF/new calibration (hardcoded from RED HQ)
Click to expand...

thanks Gunleik

that is what i fought as well , but than i got confused by jarred post about the new firmware containing the new calibration ... i guess the "bigger" new calibration ( 1+ stops DR in highlight ) comes with the new OLPF replacement ( and tommaso test i guess is a proof ( unless he had old firmware on his carbon ...)


g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
thanks Gunleik

that is what i fought as well , but than i got confused by jarred post about the new firmware containing the new calibration ... i guess the "bigger" new calibration ( 1+ stops DR in highlight ) comes with the new OLPF replacement ( and tommaso test i guess is a proof ( unless he had old firmware on his carbon ...)

g
Click to expand...


As I understood it... The newest build simply just supports the new hardware (in a release build)
 
Yes, this was a nice update from the red team.
Now Dragon have even more dynamic range and better color, Phil and Gunleik keep you updated all the time, nice to have these two men so good between us a fortune.
For those who make comparisons of DR now we are almost similar to Alexa in high light, near 0.5 stop of light. I defy anyone to tell me which one and what is the other with the same frame.
Underexposures are equal in DR but better much better in color and noise.
Today my DP during a shot with the wonderful new DRagon ... I heard a whisper: "ARRI GOOODBYE" ehehe

But as Gunleik said many times, I am now convinced I too, I bought DRagon even though he only had 10 stops ... it is so beautiful and full of juicy color that you forget everything ..

Now I hope that the guys from Davinci and Adobe errands ... I can not open the files .. only REDCINE-x ..
 
Nick Morrison said:
The extra DR comes from the new OLPF, right? But I believe to maximize the new OLPF's potential, it's suggested you work from the latest firmware.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is correct. I think it goes like this:

'Tis a 3-pronged approach...sensor calibration + color science + new OLPF.

The extended dynamic range is due to sensor calibration done by RED at the factory, NOT through a simple firmware update or the new OLPF alone.

The improvements to color science are, to some degree, made possible by the new OLPF and probably the new sensor calibration as well.

The new OLPF, in addition to eliminating the magenta flare of the original Dragon OLPF (among other things), enhances the extended DR from said sensor calibrations by smoothing highlight rolloff a little more and facilitating more accurate and saturated colors from the color science.

Like Gunleik said, the latest firmware update makes all the above things work at an optimal level.
 
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Nick Morrison said:
The extra DR comes from the new OLPF, right? But I believe to maximize the new OLPF's potential, it's suggested you work from the latest firmware.
Click to expand...

Gunleik Groven said:
If I haven't gotten this all wrong...

With new OLPF follows a hardwired new sensor calibration.

It is in THAT combo the "new" DR comes in.
Click to expand...

Brian Boyer said:
I don't think that is correct. I think it goes like this:

'Tis a 3-pronged approach...sensor calibration + color science + new OLPF.
Click to expand...


That's correct Brian. The New Sensor Calibration effects the Color Science and that's where the "majority" of the additional Dynamic Range comes from.

The New OLPF however also provides a bit more (very, very slight increase) Dynamic Range to be captured in shadow and dark areas of the frame. The Color Science has been tuned a bit for the New OLPF and what we are seeing right this second is the best color out of Dragon yet as there's no IR Glare and/or Reflection effecting the image like it was before.

That's why it's not a simple OLPF hot swap. The camera itself needs to go back to Red and the engineers need to dig into it to properly calibrate each individual camera.
 
and still missing DRAGON COLOR;) and A.D.D

These are good times for RED.:biggrin:
 
Phil Holland said:
That's correct Brian. The New Sensor Calibration effects the Color Science and that's where the "majority" of the additional Dynamic Range comes from.

The New OLPF however also provides a bit more (very, very slight increase) Dynamic Range to be captured in shadow and dark areas of the frame. The Color Science has been tuned a bit for the New OLPF and what we are seeing right this second is the best color out of Dragon yet as there's no IR Glare and/or Reflection effecting the image like it was before.

That's why it's not a simple OLPF hot swap. The camera itself needs to go back to Red and the engineers need to dig into it to properly calibrate each individual camera.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil. Super helpful (as always). I wish I could put gold stars next to your posts.
 
luigivaltulini said:
and still missing DRAGON COLOR;) and A.D.D

These are good times for RED.:biggrin:
Click to expand...

did anybody from RED ever acknowledged the existence of a work in progress dragon color ?
Greame state that the so talked new color science is part of the sensor calibration ... i don't think i ever read anything about new POST - Color matrix ...
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
did anybody from RED ever acknowledged the existence of a work in progress dragon color ?
Greame state that the so talked new color science is part of the sensor calibration ... i don't think i ever read anything about new POST - Color matrix ...
Click to expand...

I would guess that it is the new calibration which is Dragon Color., but that is JUST a guess...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I would guess that it is the new calibration which is Dragon Color., but that is JUST a guess...
Click to expand...

Interesting. I was thinking about this today - if this new calibration and OLPF is in fact the much talked about DragonColor?
 
The T2.8 shows that the pink highlights are back. This is the new calibration? Lots more room and separation up there.

EDIT: UPGRADE to the latest BETA version of RCX and there are no pink highlights, but they are there in the the Build 22 release version.



Battsitella
 
The extra DR is very clear, but the color integrity is AMAZING.
 
Here is something cool. This is why the phrase

AND IT JUST GET BETTER is what I always come back to with RED.

This is from an R3D file I shot in 2008. I always come back to this footage when there is an update to RCX or color science. Why? To see how much better image extraction has become over the years.

It's the same R3D, but the color science makes it better and better and better with age.

What other format gets better as time goes on?

When I put footage from 2008 on the RED ONE M sensor through today's processing. It's a pretty cool evolution to see.

BACK IN 2008 with CAM RGB and REC 709

R1McamRGBrec709.jpg

REDSPACE REDSPACE

R1Mredspace.jpg

RC3 RG3

R1Mnew.jpg


RC3 RLF

R1Mrlf.jpg
 
LOL David, fancy meeting you here, was just about to post this when your pictures appeared.

Nice test shot. Things are definitely improving. I still think RC3/RG3 is a really nice default look though.

These are Luigi's overexposed T2.8 shots, with nothing but identical lift/gamma/gain adjustments made to both.


Old OLPF



NewOLPF
 
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wait ,
the 2 vertical top bars were yellow/green and now are deep orange ? i like the new richness ( the lack of it has always been the big issue ) but those 2 tones are completely changed ...
wondering how that affect skin tones ( i guess start is the reason why those hues are change in the first place..)


g
 
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