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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the Epic/Dragon Vs. Alexa/Sony threads are belong to us...

Jarred Land said:
First of all... nobody here is playing games except for Geoff. We do not , and will never get involved in Geoff Boyle and Cml tests. End of story... so I would caution whatever you read about us over there. Geoff is a dick.... seems like a very unhappy man, and the above unprovoked statement reflects as much.

I personally have caught Geoff posting inaccurate technical statements about our camera and our company that when I tried to politely get him to correct, he had a hissy fit and said he knew his statements were accurate ( which they were not ) and when he finally realized he was wrong, he posted a backhanded manipulative retraction that just made things worse. Obviously we are not going to involve ourselves in working with someone who ( as he admits) is paid by our competitors and posts false technical info that only hurts us.

Add that to the personal statements Geoff made against Jim Jannard over the years and you can understand why we stay the fuck away from him and CML.
Click to expand...

I do not take sides with either Geoff, Red, CML, or Red User. I think that the tests he preformed are imperfect, as most tests are, however they do shed light on what we might expect should we find ourselves shooting with a Dragon that has not been upgraded to the new OLPF. Many people will find themselves in that situation over the next month or two while current owners see their cameras upgraded as their schedules allow. I will say that Geoff lists Red as a "gold sponsor" of the CML which, if correct, means that they do involve or at least have been involved with Geoff in the recent past on some level, contrary to this statement.

From a CML posting:
We'd like to thank the following sponsors of CML:

Gold sponsors

* Lemac-Oz * Kodak * Element Technica * Codex Digital * RED
* Tiffen * Band Pro * TCS/Technological Cinevideo * MK-V * Cooke
* AbelCine * Solid Grip Systems * AJA * JVC-Pro * FJS International
* Cam-A-Lot * 24-7 Drama * Gear Head * LVR Rental * SIM Digital
* Convergent-Design * Blackmagic-Design * K5600 * LitePanels
* Solid Camera Inc.* Arri * Canon EOS-C * Sony * Light Illusion
* Matthews Studio Equipment * F&V Lighting * Dolby Laboratories Inc
*

Bottom line is, no test is the absolute truth. Do your own tests based on your own requirements for critical applications. Bullies will bully and grumpy people will be grumpy; draw your own conclusions as to who may be one or the other but let's just try to enjoy using all of these great cameras to create fantastic images and let the anger fizzle out.
 
Evin Grant said:
I don't understand the insecurity I'm sensing here, is it just the internet distortion field?
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I don't get it either.
All I can see is, this whole thing is turning into a dick contest.
Everybody should relax a bit and go outside shooting something.
Peace
B.
 
Brice Ansel said:
I don't get it either.
All I can see is, this whole thing is turning into a dick contest.
Everybody should relax a bit and go outside shooting something.
Peace
B.
Click to expand...

Shut up and shoot that dragon...

Mine has been doing Chanell video and stills for a while...

Probably not because it was all that bad... :)
 
I'm asking this because there are a lot of posts on Reduser about these
tests that are just so full of shit! And if you're the kind of tossser who posts that I may not be doing a fair
test, well fuck you!
Click to expand...

Yes, these are definitely the words of a level-headed and objective reviewer.

There will be plenty of tests in the next few months, no need to waste time on this one. I think this guy's bias is pretty clear to see.
 
Anyone who has any clue of what an r3d is, what an r3d has become and what an r3d will be would tell plenty of people to rethink things.

Evin in is correct, as are Gunliek, Phil and Brice.

But best of all jarred is bang on.

I bought red, at the start, so I don't need to know what's out there, I have what I need in my hands and it's done nothing but get better since day one.

Now, if someone could "hit go" on my bomb squad rep and have him send me an email, I could join this party! Lol :)


Battistella
 
Okay.... So on a positive note, I truly believe that the Dragon, with new OLPF etc.,
is the best digital cinema camera in the world.

:)

Ohh, and Jared...thanks for being so honest about your feelings. I get it.
 
Martin Stevens said:
Okay.... So on a positive note, I truly believe that the Dragon, with new OLPF etc.,
is the best digital cinema camera in the world.

:)

Ohh, and Jared...thanks for being so honest about your feelings. I get it.
Click to expand...


i am positive .... That I made a great choice seven years ago. :)

sorry for swearing though.
 
People will test what they test, some honestly and others with an agenda. RED has been great to me, and continue to deliver an un-compromising Camera. I am loyal to RED for sure, because I like them, I like what they stand for and part of that is not taking slack from people who cross certain lines. I have an agenda and it's to make the best looking images possible. I believe to this day that Dragon does that. Thanks Jarred and Jim.

- E
 
I don't know why we are on the sponsor page.. Maybe someone is privately sponsoring them on our behalf. We obviously havn't gotten along for quite some time.

This whole thing is obviously very personal, and very juvenile ( and I am just as guilty for my involvement. ) And I am sorry you guys need to witness all this.

That is why I stay quiet about CMLS stuff as much as I can, given our history and given the fact that tests like these normally go sideways before any emotions ever get involved which is what looked like happened again. I woke up this morning to a bunch of swear words tossed toward us for whatever reason and it set me off.

So anyways.. Back to the tests.. I think a little disclaimer on that page would be great posted with the tests stating that these tests occurred with the previous OLPF and Color Science since the new stuff is in shipping cameras. It seems that would be the easiest way to address everyone's concerns on the validity, or more so the usefulness of the results. But again, anyone can do whatever they want, post whatever they want and test whatever they want.

And yes, thanks to Gunleik who I imagine is in a tough position right now navigating through the emotions and everyone else for their support.
 
In person I can talk just about anyone round to a balanced understanding of a technical test... but it takes time and deep understanding. Via forum posts on the internet its a tall order to explain how to boil an egg or tie a shoelace, never mind make a complex technical analysis, so its not surprising this stuff always blows up.

Kudos to Jarred for standing behind Gunleik, and to G for getting involved. Not sure I would have this time.
 
Gunleik,

I'm sorry if I missed this detail, but did you white balance the cameras or meter the color temperature and dial it in?

Thanks for these BTW - great grist for the mill.

Drilled into the R3Ds and discovered the settings at 5600k and no tint correction.
 
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RED is the color of passion so we do see it come up and I think it's good. I like the peaceful times like everyone else, but I don't mind seeing people passionate about RED, the kit RED makes or the kit owners bought.

Like a family, people get upset sometimes, but we are all reasonable and come back to what is important.

One of those things, sometimes, is looking out for one and other.


Battistella
 
Definitely Dragon beats Arri Alexa XL Open Gate and Panasonic Lumix GH4 also beats Arri Amira.

That's all what Arri has got for Valentines Day and also for upcoming hot summer 2014.

They should try once more to figure out how they can finally jump in 4K wagon...!!!

Looking forward to see what they will show at NAB...!!!???

As I said already here at the forum that Arri arrogantly trying to sell an old and vintage technology as a brand new one.

Or something like to sell an old and nice DKW Auto Union as a brand new Audi A8 luxury sedan car!!!

800px-Auto_Union_1000s-02.JPG

DKW Auto Union an old vintage German luxury car.

800px-2011_Audi_A8_--_07-07-2011_1.jpg

Audi A8 a brand new German luxury sedan car.

Also this can be called as a sort of cine digital dumping technology policy...!!!!
 
White flag raised... and Geoff accepted. We can all be friends now.. and move along.


Hi Jared,

I agree completely.
We both overreacted, but that's who we are.
We both care passionately about what we do.
If I could have replied on Reduser to the people who were posting messages
attacking my methodology and approach before they had ever seen anything as
well as questioning my integrity we could have avoided all this.
I over-reacted and posted the only place I could, it was a surge of
frustration, I was trying to tell people how good Dragon is, in its current
form never mind later, and I was being reviled.
Please let me reply quietly and politely on Reduser in future and we can
prevent all this.
Oh and the reason that RED is listed as a sponsor is that a guy called Jim
Jannard sent me a cheque years ago that covered sponsorship up until mid
2015...
Geoff


-----Original Message-----
From: Jarred Land
Sent: 11 February 2014 03:34
To: Geoff Boyle
Subject: We need

to get past this stuff.. and I am just as guilty in this regard. It's not
good for you, for me, or any of our readers/customers.
 
I'm glad to be back here, thanks Jared.
Maybe we can now talk about this directly and calmly.

The tests were conducted with the cameras that were currently available, there were "experts" in each camera present where possible, nobody from KineRAW or SinaCAM.

The tests were carried out in the University of the West of England and senior staff from there were present to make sure that everything was fair.

My methodology on DR is very simple, it's not as pedantic as some, I want to know what usable DR there is, not what the last point a pixel is visible through the noise!

To check what I would describe as shooting DR we overexpose a grey scale at half stop intervals until the difference between the brightest 2 chips disappears, the half stop before that is the limit. I don't use highly specialised kit to measure this, I use my eyes on a regular monitor from a regular viewing distance. The object after all is to see what the shooting DR is in normal conditions.

We then repeat this with exposures reducing, again, the point where I can't see the difference between the 2 darkest chips is a half stop beyond the DR limit.

If the camera is very noisy at this point I will comment, as I will also comment if it is very quiet. You may recall that I did mention this in regard to the Dragon.

Now can we all please be civilised about this.

Oh and I will be contacting Jared in July 2015 asking him to continue sponsorship of CML!!
 
Mark Wilkinson said:
Gunleik,

I'm sorry if I missed this detail, but did you white balance the cameras or meter the color temperature and dial it in?

Thanks for these BTW - great grist for the mill.

Drilled into the R3Ds and discovered the settings at 5600k and no tint correction.
Click to expand...

I usually shoot "flat".

And it has no effect on the exposure.
 
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