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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the bad news...

o don't worry... our multiple personality disorders will never let us be completely "normal" :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Deal.

The reason you don't hear a lot of other companies talking about Japan is because other companies are not as transparent as we are... they don't give you open roadmaps. They usually don't give you a peak behind the curtain what they are working on years in advance. Most of you feel like our family.. our close friends... this business to us is personal.

We probably should be a little more discrete on our schedules.. it is just so damn hard because we get so excited about this stuff we tend to spill the beans the moment we get internal dates. Historically it seems that the value of a short-term moment of excitement that comes from us sharing what's in our minds may not be worth the long-term hurt feelings and lashings we get when we miss targets.
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Hey,

I really liked this response Jarred.. Well written. I know you guys get excited, and I love that.. But yeah, the sad truth is, better to keep some things to yourselves, and when it's actually ready, then we can all party together!

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Hey,

I really liked this response Jarred.. Well written. I know you guys get excited, and I love that.. But yeah, the sad truth is, better to keep some things to yourselves, and when it's actually ready, then we can all party together!

Jay
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So, you think there should be some sort of filter for certain REDusers such as yourself who don't care about up to the minute status updates on where RED is at in the way they perceive their schedule?

I have reason to believe that the majority of people who are on REDuser are those that wish and have come to expect these updates. Not because they believe RED owes it to them...but rather it is in the company's nature. The ones who just want to see the camera on the market are waiting without the frequent visits to the forum.

Am I wrong?
 
I agre with Joseph (I think) :-)

Why do some people want to shut down the RED team from giving information just because it might upset them. Let them be who they are. Accept it or stay away and don't torture yourself.

I love coming to REDuser just on the chance I might find out something exciting. If not, well... it's just another day. :001_smile:
 
Joseph Hutson said:
So, you think there should be some sort of filter for certain REDusers such as yourself who don't care about up to the minute status updates on where RED is at in the way they perceive their schedule?

I have reason to believe that the majority of people who are on REDuser are those that wish and have come to expect these updates. Not because they believe RED owes it to them...but rather it is in the company's nature. The ones who just want to see the camera on the market are waiting without the frequent visits to the forum.

Am I wrong?
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Well I can't say you are wrong, but I can say I do not agree with you. :) I want info of course.. And I want status reports.. But more importantly, I want it to be CORRECT.

Let's face facts, RED has a 5% or less success rate at hitting stated deadlines. That's no good for anybody. If you want them to keep giving you info that's incorrect, well then that's you. I said I still want to know about new stuff, accessories new features, new movies shot on RED, software updates... Just no more schedules or deadlines unless it's "Epic-X is done.. We'll be sending out notices next week".

Incorrect information does NO ONE any good.. Not us, and not RED.. And if you think they should keep doing this, then I think you need to mull this over a little bit. Jarred did not agree with me to be nice.. They have put a lot of thought into this I am sure.. This is a much better way to go.

Jay
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I love coming to REDuser just on the chance I might find out something exciting. If not, well... it's just another day. :001_smile:
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This is a big part of the thrill for me! Its a privilege to see what a leading cinema camera company is doing and brewing...For all those nay say-ers, why dont you go onto other manufactures forums and try to give ideas for them to input into their next camera, or hear about what is being worked on. See what kind of response you will get. I can tell you, you dont have to waste your time. You will get...nothing. So what, things dont come out on time, because nothing ever goes to plan when your doing something no other company is doing, (aka game changing :wink5:)

I say, bring on the dates that RED WANT to have things out, and let us know what you have planned for your cameras. Because even though things may not go to plan, it makes me feel (and maybe alot more of us) like we are more a part of RED then just...guys buying cameras...who can contribute to the forming of this exciting new technology!

But I guess thats just me... :001_smile:
 
well, besides information from/about RED, the best thing about reduser is the community discussion and sharing that goes on. and i truly believe that makes red a better company that makes better products... they really actually listen and gear their cameras towards professional use, both in a specific and broad sense, with all kinds of input from varied fields.

everyone, including jim, has realized that red has an unfortunate history of deadlines. i can only assume that they are working on a solution, but that may or may not affect the way announcements are handled.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
...
Incorrect information does NO ONE any good.. Not us, and not RED.. And if you think they should keep doing this, then I think you need to mull this over a little bit. Jarred did not agree with me to be nice.. They have put a lot of thought into this I am sure.. This is a much better way to go.

Jay
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Let's be clear, the information they provide is not "incorrect"it is just unknowable and ineaxact; it's a "best guess" situation. If you don't want to play the game, stay off the field. Again... just let them be who they are and accept it. They are not perfect but who is??
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Just no more schedules or deadlines unless it's "Epic-X is done.. We'll be sending out notices next week".

Incorrect information does NO ONE any good.. Not us, and not RED.. And if you think they should keep doing this, then I think you need to mull this over a little bit. Jarred did not agree with me to be nice.. They have put a lot of thought into this I am sure.. This is a much better way to go.

Jay
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I am pretty sure all dates posted are all planned release dates, not official release dates, so they should not be taken as official. Which when I see them I understand this, you should probably look at them too. And I would also say if RED were to start making official release dates, and started missing them by alot I can see your frustration. But remember that little signature Jannard has:

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

This should be a give away that things are not always official. It would be nice to get more official deadlines but I can live without them. I just try not to plan too much around release dates, and be happy when they are out. Which is ok with me because these cameras seem too good to be true as it is, I am happy they are even in the works. :)
 
I think the difference is you see these dates as deadline. I see them as fundamentally something different. I see them as RED's "expectations". These are based on what their 3rd-party manufacturers are telling them.

We don't find out when the cameras will be ready. We just find out what RED's expectations are. When they find out their expectations are not met, I'm sure Jim himself worries more about his friends (customers) not getting their cameras more than anybody feels personally about ther own purchase.

It all comes down to how RED sees best how to run their company

P.S. It's kind of interesting to take note of how RED is so personal that they not only explain many behind the scenes matters, but also that they even take note of these kind of discussions we are having right now. Another example of RED not being the cookie-cutter business type...
 
I think either way, once this next line of release takes place, it's going to be a non-issue. Most people that are really complaining about delivery dates are in one of two categories: they are waiting to make a huge upgrade from HD devices and can't afford a R1, or they need/want the form factor of the Epic/Scarlet. Mostly the former case, I'd expect (like myself) who keep wanting to shoot their next project on a Red, but can't always do so. Funny enough, as soon as I got over the waiting game and started doing projects, a lot of them ended up being shot on RED :) Maybe our attitude is important in life...
 
David Diperstein said:
What is with all the rampant fanboyism? Jannard didn't grow Oakley into a multi-billion dollar company by crowd-sourcing very serious business into a play party. He has shifted an entire industry worth of careers by knowing what he's talking about with this company. Don't encourage him to stop communicating by overstepping your bounds.
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You're funny David. A bit melodramatic, but funny... I digress.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
It's kind of interesting to take note of how RED is so personal that they not only explain many behind the scenes matters, but also that they even take note of these kind of discussions we are having right now. Another example of RED not being the cookie-cutter business type...
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Bang. Nailed it right there.

Any company can put up a suggestion box.

The difference with RED is, the suggestions get right in front of the people who matter.

The big difference with RED is the people who matter will come right back and discuss the suggestion with everyone, right here. I still find that astonishing.

Mike
 
Don't worry guys... the news will still come. We will just wait till it is a little more baked before we post about it.

You probably won't even notice to be honest with you... there is so much incredible stuff brewing that there will be no shortage of things to tell you about, but hopefully the time we talk about stuff and the time we can actually deliver will become shorter :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Don't worry guys... the news will still come. We will just wait till it is a little more baked before we post about it.

You probably won't even notice to be honest with you... there is so much incredible stuff brewing that there will be no shortage of things to tell you about, but hopefully the time we talk about stuff and the time we can actually deliver will become shorter :)
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Well that makes perfect sense with regard to actual working products/specs/delivery.
I still REALLY appreciate the vague/hinting announcements of whats going on in your development, and what we can look forward to. Like the one about the future sensor(Dragon?) and that it will be an upgrade to the Epic body.
This is the kind of news that keeps me on the RED train...
As you are aware of, it is also of great importance to get the Epic X out in numbers ASAP, as the RED ONE is being killed by ALEXA, in my market, at this point in time..
 
Jarred Land said:
Don't worry guys... the news will still come. We will just wait till it is a little more baked before we post about it.

You probably won't even notice to be honest with you... there is so much incredible stuff brewing that there will be no shortage of things to tell you about, but hopefully the time we talk about stuff and the time we can actually deliver will become shorter :)
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This I like... ;)
 
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