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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Adobe/SDK Update

jbeale said:
Decoding? I think "import" just means load in a file, of whatever format, as others have mentioned. But I'm pretty sure it will at least be decoded to some working format like RGB or YCrCb, etc. Redcode natively stores data using wavelet compression- I don't think anyone's software operates on the wavelet basis vectors directly without decoding them, and if you want the full quality output you'll want it debayered as well.
Click to expand...

Everything in AE is "decoded" to uncompressed RGB internally.
 
joelnet said:
Makes sense. If we could import, edit and color correct the 1K stream and then render fully debayered from the 4K when the project is done I think we'd really have a cool workflow. Basically an offline with an automatic online from the 1K stream to the 4K stream.
Click to expand...

Will it render out to a r3d file?
 
Thomas Mathai said:
Will it render out to a r3d file?
Click to expand...

I believe that an R3D file is the raw format of the RED camera. There is no reason or way you can save a file to that format once the file is opened. Why would you want to? There would be no purpose. Once your images are rendered to an uncompressed format you would not want to re-compress is again other than to an appropriate final output format for use in projection or printing etc.

As usual please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Everything in AE is "decoded" to uncompressed RGB internally.
Click to expand...

I think we will need amazing computer power to edit 4K uncompressed files. Wouldn't we be much better off outputting to a 1080P format for most use. A 4K frame in 16bit color depth renders out to about 40MB I think.

So if you do the math, one second of data would equal about about 1Gig of data! Is there a desktop system that can play back one gig a second data in real time? And what about effects? Wow.

Am I correct in my calculations? Does a Scratch system handle this?
 
joelnet said:
Makes sense. If we could import, edit and color correct the 1K stream and then render fully debayered from the 4K when the project is done I think we'd really have a cool workflow. Basically an offline with an automatic online from the 1K stream to the 4K stream.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was a screengrab of the Import dialog box posted the other day, and this is what will be happening, best i can tell.


EDIT: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=265898&postcount=363

I'm not sure where I got the idea that you can easily output your final edit in full 4k, but it should be possible....
 
Steve Sanacore said:
I think we will need amazing computer power to edit 4K uncompressed files. Wouldn't we be much better off outputting to a 1080P format for most use. A 4K frame in 16bit color depth renders out to about 40MB I think.

So if you do the math, one second of data would equal about about 1Gig of data! Is there a desktop system that can play back one gig a second data in real time? And what about effects? Wow.

Am I correct in my calculations? Does a Scratch system handle this?
Click to expand...

It's 1.2+ gigs per second for uncompressed 4k.

Building 4k realtime systems is definitely challenging. Scratch can handle it, but there is not a turnkey solution offered by Assimilate (they really are more of a software developer), so you'd be installing the software on a system built to do 1.3 gigs per second throughput. That'd be something like 16 sas drives with quad channel eSata or dual fiberchannel, plus a fast, stable mobo/fsb/graphics pipeline.

Filmlight, Digital Vision (nucoda), and DVS offer turnkey 4k systems. I've used the Baselight 8, and think it's spectacular.

regards,

John T.
 
What RED needs is a DI codec so that after you leave the r3d you have some place to go!

And also to "render" the timeline when it gets RED bars like a transition etc, or a tough color time that cna't playback in realtime...

I really wonder about BIT JAZZ for this?? Dean?

or maybe a high bitrate h264? whatever you choose it better not show up as a compressed file visually speaking. It would suck to be playing your time line and see the "rendered" section artifacts
 
agreed. not sure that is going to happen any time soon though.
 
Hi Deanan,

it may be to early to ask details like this, but I'd like to know if the R3D file format is using padded frames size, ie. each frame has the same space requirement (constand bit rate) in the final data stream?

So it would be the same sequential space used per each frame, regardless if it will compress slightly or much better than the predicted maximum allowed (ie. = padding size).

The point is how single frames can be accessed by calculation, and if it is possible to overwrite them within the stream?

We have many uses for this workflow, thats why I am asking this.

Looking forward to your comments.

Axel
 
As of build 13, R3D had a variable bitrate, although it did not vary by much (eg. 10% or so) and the frames were not padded in the file- the filesize actually did depend on scene content. I don't know how they've changed things since then, though.
 
obin said:
agreed. not sure that is going to happen any time soon though.
Click to expand...

Redcode RAW to Cineform RAW may not happen soon, but Redcode RAW to Cineform 444 should be possible through the Red SDK.

If my understanding is correct, you will not have any drop in picture quality, because all it's doing is permanently debayering the image. You're still retaining all your pixel information within the 4:4:4 RGB signal. It should give you the same color processing power.

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

-Thor
 
Nope, you will use lots more disk space with the 4:4:4 and far larger file sizes....

Thor Wixom said:
Redcode RAW to Cineform RAW may not happen soon, but Redcode RAW to Cineform 444 should be possible through the Red SDK.

If my understanding is correct, you will not have any drop in picture quality, because all it's doing is permanently debayering the image. You're still retaining all your pixel information within the 4:4:4 RGB signal. It should give you the same color processing power.

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

-Thor
Click to expand...
 
Steve Sanacore said:
I believe that an R3D file is the raw format of the RED camera. There is no reason or way you can save a file to that format once the file is opened. Why would you want to? There would be no purpose. Once your images are rendered to an uncompressed format you would not want to re-compress is again other than to an appropriate final output format for use in projection or printing etc.

As usual please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

Well rendering out to an uncompressed file format isn't going to work for everyone, and there isn't many options for lossless 4k 4:4:4 formats at the moment.

I may have to just wait for when Red Giant releases the Microcosm codec for free later in the year. I wonder if there is any resolution restrictions on that codec.
 
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