View factor studios - FF & RED motors

[CVB]

Yeah, looks like we are going to opt out.. It's a big undertaking just getting everything over there. Maybe Jim will let us tag along and have a square meter of space in the red booth As soon as we start shipping products towards the end of the year you will see us at many more trade shows.. I promise.

 

[Nick Shaw]

Yes, be good to see both you and Erik from Birger showing products on the Red stand. You're both effectively honorary members of Team Red!

 

[Priyesh P.]

This is absolutely fantastic news. I've always dreamed of an LCS with this featureset that doesn't cost the equivalent of a car (the case with Arri & C-Motion).
About calibrationdata, Curt, it'd be great if it could be handled by Viewfactor. C-Motion offers a calibration bench (looks like a collimator bench), but that thing is way too expensive and (more important) would be too time consuming and sort of overkill for something you'll very rarely be using.

 

[Curran Giddens]

How about saving the lens position/camera data to a computer?

Someone could perform a camera move (at least pan/tilt) and save the data to a computer. Then they could playback the camera move while remotely racking focus (with the lens breathing compensation mode) and save that data to the computer. Once you have it perfect, you could combine the Mirus MoCo data and FIZ data into one file so you can repeat everything with one click. That would be sweet! :biggrin:

We just need a MoCo dolly/jib sometime next year to complete the setup.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

Yeah, looks like we are going to opt out.. It's a big undertaking just getting everything over there. Maybe Jim will let us tag along and have a square meter of space in the red booth As soon as we start shipping products towards the end of the year you will see us at many more trade shows.. I promise.

I am sure you will have more cool footage than you will know what to
do with it by next year.

 

[roryhinds]

Hey Curt

So FF shipping at the end of the year... do you now when the MB will be shipping.

Just trying to work out timelines here.

Regards
Rory

 

[CVB]

This is absolutely fantastic news. I've always dreamed of an LCS with this featureset that doesn't cost the equivalent of a car (the case with Arri & C-Motion).
About calibrationdata, Curt, it'd be great if it could be handled by Viewfactor. C-Motion offers a calibration bench (looks like a collimator bench), but that thing is way too expensive and (more important) would be too time consuming and sort of overkill for something you'll very rarely be using.

Well, the significant differences between c-motion and ours is going to be the price and the screen. Our screen is going to be a lowly graphic lcd but I don't think its going to have any problems displaying everything you will need. We were going to use an OLED but after seeing the new preston remote I'm not very happy with its lack of readability in direct sunlight.

How about saving the lens position/camera data to a computer?

Someone could perform a camera move (at least pan/tilt) and save the data to a computer. Then they could playback the camera move while remotely racking focus (with the lens breathing compensation mode) and save that data to the computer. Once you have it perfect, you could combine the Mirus MoCo data and FIZ data into one file so you can repeat everything with one click. That would be sweet! :biggrin:

We just need a MoCo dolly/jib sometime next year to complete the setup.

Yes, When the reomte is used with the moco system you will be able to record the camera movement first, then playback the move while pulling focus and recording that new data alongside the original move data. When you playback you can pick and choose the tracks that you want ot play or play them all. Moco dolly early next year - Feburary-ish.

Hey Curt

So.. do you now when the MB will be shipping.

Just trying to work out timelines here.

Regards
Rory

Red is in charge of when the motors will ship and what they will cost. I'm just saying that the remote that controls the motors are going to be out by the end of the year. The matte box is in the concept stage and I'm trying my best to get it finished up to show you guys. I'm hoping to get it out this year as its much easier and inexpensive to manufacture than our moco system. After seeing what the guys at redrock have done we're going to have to make the price and features something that stands out.. more soon

BTW, Heres the newest look for the remote...

 

[Brook Willard]

Cool, looking good! If this thing is even close to the C-Motion system... I'll love you forever.

 

[Curran Giddens]

When the remote is used with the moco system you will be able to record the camera movement first, then playback the move while pulling focus and recording that new data alongside the original move data. When you playback you can pick and choose the tracks that you want to play or play them all. Moco dolly early next year - Feburary-ish.

That is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks!

 

[roryhinds]

Hi Curt

Sounds amazing and the 3d image looks great.

I guess the biggest thing is delivering, as it seems there is so much hype around products that promise the world but aren't available... one gets overloaded with hype and promises and tied of slick 3d modeling.

I'm sure you can appreciate that the real tangible world is where its at.

Regards
Rory

 

[Andrew Benz]

Cool, looking good! If this thing is even close to the C-Motion system... I'll love you forever.

I would like to second Brook and Curran... Thank you!

 

[CVB]

Hi Curt

Sounds amazing and the 3d image looks great.

I guess the biggest thing is delivering, as it seems there is so much hype around products that promise the world but aren't available... one gets overloaded with hype and promises and tied of slick 3d modeling.

I'm sure you can appreciate that the real tangible world is where its at.

Regards
Rory

Well, all I can say is that I hate not living up to my word... I may be off by a month or two here and there but its never due to lack of commitment on my part One thing I can tell you is that all of this stuff is in the works and hardware is going to be sitting on my desk in a few weeks. All the engineering is being done by myself and one other individual so things are a little hectic. We are picking and choosing our battles carefully to make sure we can deliver on what we promise. Some features will be enabled with firmware updates but the main thing is to get the hardware in place to support that additional functionality. This sounds so familiar...

 

[Finner]

Looks really nice Curt with great clean lines. I like the zoom system.

Some quick points (As you know most focus pullers are a bit of a quirky breed and when they find a system that works they stick with it). On that note.

1. I would say 95% or higher of focus pullers regardless if they are right or left handed pull focus with their left hand when useing a non remote follow focus (it makes it easier to hide beside the camera and out of the talents eyeline). So thus there are a bunch that perfer the focus wheel on the remote be on the left side (that said the arri version is right hand focus wheel and most focus pullers can adapt quite easily.) So if it is easy for the hand control to allow for left or right focus pulling it would be a bonus, if not I can't see it making much of a negitive impact on your sales.

2. There is something about a simple plastic follow focus wheel that just feels right and is what a focus puller is use to. I would lose the foamy style wheel. It would get sopping wet in wet weather and on those tense big focus pulling shots soak up the focus pullers hand sweat and not only feel nasty but soon smell like a pair of old hockey gloves (For those that have never smelled old hockey equipment, especially gloves I invite you to come visit my basement next time you are up in Canada).

3. A markable white disk or "puck" is a must but I think the only reason it is not being shown is because the clean black render looks so kick ass without it.

4. A spinable lockable focus marking point that physically sticks out and above the hand grip wheel is a must for 2 reasons (1- if a lense motor hops a cog on the lense and the sun is going down the first AD is yelling you have no time to re-calibrate the lense setting so a quick adjustment of the focus mark point is the best option in a lot of situations. 2 The way the focus mark point physically sticks up is actually a tool in an experienced focus pullers bag of tricks. When I pulled focus I would often just before rolling spin the focus to the closest mark the actor was hitting or closest focus I needed to hit for that shot and then place my index finger so it just hit the side of the adjustable focus mark. Then I would spin the focus to the slate and then to the begining focus point of the shot all the while holding my index finger on that "end focus point" of the shot on the focus wheel. This way when I needed to hit the last focus point I did not even have to glance at the lense just watch the talent walk to their final mark and when my finger hit the focus mark I knew I was at the correct focus distance for that point. Also quite often an actor will have a slight lean back and lean in on a shot. In this case I would measure and find my distances for the near and far points and place the focus mark that sticks up between my index finger and middle finger (index on the close focus point and middle on the far) this way the actor could lean as much as they wanted back and forth and I would know exactly where I was on the lense as my different fingers touched the mark point without ever having to look at the lense and possibly missing the movement of an actor. So to sum that up the spinable lockable focus mark that sticks up is very important and I thought you would appreciate knowing why.

Other then those small points the remote unit looks fantastic.

 

[CVB]

Thanks for the feedback Daren.
Heres a couple points on the above that I should probably mention...

1) The control inputs are modular. The focus knob can be moved to the left or right and the screen can me moved around as well. The screen actually folds between the handle and the base unit so its fairly compact for storage.
I guess I rendered it the way it is because I'm right handed but I understand your concern.

2) The foam portion is removable and we will have a few options, including rubber and knurled aluminum etc. What ever people ask for the most

3) The markable puck might be an issue with this system. Let me explain... Since the red motors are motion control and can goto preset positions there is a problem when we use an input device that has a memory.. when actual motor position is different from what the knob indicates. If we put a markable puck on there then as soon as a preset is used the puck will be out of sync with the motor position. The reason we added the screen is that we are going to have all the lens data pre-configured so you won't have to mark anything or spend anytime calibrating the motor to the knob on the remote. we are going to have a facility on the remote where you can set user positions on the screen and pull focus to those.

If thats a huge turn off to people then we can put in a white focus ring and make the remote simulate the old school way of doing things. In that case the presets would probably need to be disabled so the motor wont be out of syc with the knob position.

4) If all the lens data is built in to the unit then a recalibration would take about 20 seconds... however long it takes the motor to find the limits of the lens. Thats the whole point behind having the lcd screen - so there is no need make marks on a ring to correlate to the lens. I understand your point though. I figure that if we make the unit modular then theres plenty of opportunities to make add-ons that will fit the bill for the way things are currently done.

 

[Finner]

Sounds good Curt.

The main reason for a markable puck is not usually to be able to mark the actual distance measurements for each lense as quite often I would have many permenantly marked pucks for various lenses sitting beside them in the lense case. The main reason is many focus pullers will find the focus distance of a natural mark in frame (a tree, car, rock...) and then make a mark on the white puck with a line and a little drawing of the tree or car. I have never seen a remote follow focus without a puck or marking disc before. It may be a bit of a hard sell without one.

 

[CVB]

Understood. A question I would have is this... when you have set positions for objects that will definitely hit their marks like rocks and cars that are stationary, why not use the presets? You can get the focus dead on then set the parameters for the max velocity and ease In/out to get it dialed in exactly the way you want it. Then the paranoia is out of the equation... you just hit a button and the pull will look smooth and steady and there is no possibility of overshooting or messing it up. If you have a situation where the objects are moving then thats another story.

The approach that we are taking is this... a large percentage of the guys who are going to be buying these are probably not professional focus pullers. We're trying to hit that point where we won't totally turn off the pros but also pull in the new guys that really want professional shots and don't necessarily have the high end skill set. This is kind of like the mac of the remote FF industry

 

[Finner]

The thing with pulling focus is nothing ever happens the exact same way twice. An actor or car moves differently or not at the same speed each shot or worse yet in the middle of the shot the director calls out some new direction that throws off everything. A good focus puller can adjust on the fly for any shot as you never know when that cinematic geneius will happen.

You have done such an amazing job with what you have done and designed. I will be a little blunt here as I feel it is the best for your product. It seems like you are over engineering and possibly even trying to re-invent the wheel. Simple most often works best. I am trying to understand your post on why the marking disc "puck" would not work and do not quite understand why it would not work. Heres the thing give the focus puller the full control as seldom to never would a focus puller want the pull to happen automatically as like I mentioned things always happen a little different. I see you having the opportunity to really take a big bite out of the Arri and Preston remote follow focus bussiness. I just see simplifing the unit being a big plus the auto features and eliminating breathing features would be very seldomly used as compared to a simple unit that is budget friendly and works like a preston or Arri unit. These units are very expensive but do a very simple job and cost way to much. The thing is function will always beat features. I may be misunderstanding you a little but it really seems like you are just a few small steps away from a grand slam.

PM me or e-mail me about any questions you may have as I am more then happy to do what I can.

Daren

 

[Finner]

4) If all the lens data is built in to the unit then a recalibration would take about 20 seconds... however long it takes the motor to find the limits of the lens. Thats the whole point behind having the lcd screen - so there is no need make marks on a ring to correlate to the lens. I understand your point though. I figure that if we make the unit modular then theres plenty of opportunities to make add-ons that will fit the bill for the way things are currently done.

On a set quite often a recycling of the motor is too long of a time to wait even if it is 20 seconds. A really good Focus puller will try and do their job so that production will never have to wait on them. A spin of the focus mark (2 seconds) is what 99% of focus pullers would rather do then re-cycle the motor (I know this because I use to work with remote FF systems a lot and a quick re-set of the focus mark is a very common thing.

 

[Finner]

Understood. A question I would have is this... when you have set positions for objects that will definitely hit their marks like rocks and cars that are stationary, why not use the presets? You can get the focus dead on then set the parameters for the max velocity and ease In/out to get it dialed in exactly the way you want it. Then the paranoia is out of the equation... you just hit a button and the pull will look smooth and steady and there is no possibility of overshooting or messing it up. If you have a situation where the objects are moving then thats another story.

I re-read this and saw what you were trying to say here. When a focus puller grabs a stationary mark like a tree or car it is not to get the tree or car in focus but so that when an actor walks past the tree or car the focus puller will know where sharp focus is for that point.

 

[Curran Giddens]

The approach that we are taking is this... a large percentage of the guys who are going to be buying these are probably not professional focus pullers. We're trying to hit that point where we won't totally turn off the pros but also pull in the new guys that really want professional shots and don't necessarily have the high end skill set. This is kind of like the mac of the remote FF industry

I appreciate any feature (like the breathing elimination mode) that can help a non-professional (like myself) to pull focus. I think you are taking the right approach....