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A plea against Redstremism.

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James T Mather

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This is a plea to the forum - can we contain the fervour a little? Hounding people of a dissenting view, claiming they're on a payroll, dragging up old posts with a see-I-was-right smug childishness. I think this is why Red Cameras are having a perception problem at the moment in favour of alternatives - because people don't like fanaticism. From Fascism to Scientology to fundamentalists - people don't accept fanatics as good judges of things, especially when they're being harangued.

This gloating know-it-all fanboyism cheapens the brand - as fanatics cannot be trusted because they hold an unwavering biased view - they are not open to debate. It's idiotic. Also, it's unprofessional. Let the cameras succeed because they are good, not because of juvenile uninformed zealotry.

I find people who often declare film defunct in favour of digital, never actually used the stuff and don't fully grasp that despite all the advances in imagemaking tech, in many respects in my opinion it still is better. Digital will win, because it's cheaper and easier to use. From a producer's standpoint this is not an aesthetic distinction right now, it is a fiscal one. When someone sniggers FILM IS DEAD, it doesn't make me agree with you - it makes me think you don't have a clue as to what you're looking at in a picture - so I would never hire you as a cinematographer. It weakens your argument. Digital will catch up to and, no doubt surpass film in every respect - but film still has the edge right now but Red and Arri offer the best alternative at the moment and are the most likely to pull it off in the future.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that some people at twenty think they know it all - and occasionally some people never get past that - endlessly parroting the same biased narrowminded bollocks over and over again then high-fiving themselves in the forehead. These people will never learn - they want to tell everyone their gospel. It is a form of narcissistic personality disorder. Fools talk, wise men listen.

Insert name of ̶E̶m̶b̶a̶s̶s̶y̶ Alexa factory to trash here _________________ because somebody didn't like ̶M̶o̶h̶a̶m̶m̶e̶d̶ Red. Redstremism: it's the new Scientology. Grow up guys, please. You're actually damaging the brand and the cameras with this nonsense. (I've had to drop a ton of cash this week to buy an Alexa due to the perception issues that seem to be out there at the moment - stop making it worse for the love of God).

Love the camera, not the fatwa.

www.jamestmather.com
 
This is a general problem on most user fora. Have you ever tried to post a positive experience with your Subaru on a BMW forum? Talking Windows on a Mac forum? Publishing a great burger recipe on a vegetarian forum? It is just one of many ways of expressing passion, though I wish that some people could indeed restraim themselves more. (At least people have stopped informing us about their bowel dysfunctions whenever RED releases new gear.)

I would stay away from drawing parallels between religious extremisms and fan-boyism.
 
I'm really saying that you have a better chance of convincing someone that Red is great if you seem to be impartial in your views. Then people see your argument on it's merits.

I agree with you Martin, I don't expect support for alternative systems - that's not what I'm advocating. In the real world, I'm pretty sure you can make one camera system look like another using filters etc but that isn't really enough when people have latched onto an idea - especially producers and directors. It may look identical but they want what they want and it's a free market. Recently on this forum, many attempts to discuss the merits of another system as regards how it compared to the Red was frequently drowned by people CAPS LOCKING their asses off to quell what might have been useful perspective for development of the dragon I thought.

I recently seemed to have acquired a rep as a red-head around here where I work with a company - I'm not particularly partisan when it comes to cameras - so why did people consider me a Red fanboy? Because it seems to be the default position whenever they met Red owners: there was a wild-eyed attempt to big-up Red at every turn in favour of anything else mentioned and deride any alternatives. So they assumed everyone who owned a Red was like that. That producer said to me : "I've seen your posts on that reduser site. They're f&£)@ing nuts over there, it's like a religion or something".

Of course people are going to support Red here, it's expected - if people could just moderate the fervor a bit, it might just help the brand perception.
 
I must admit that I too at times go over a bit, however I only talk from direct experience and knowledge of FACTS gotten thru exhausting tests on Studio and on field with Professional crew and very high budgets, this is for Alexa I'm talking about, and most of my comments come in reply to some absurdity said in favor of Alexa, so there you go.

Now as far as FILM, sorry James, but Film is indeed DEAD, there is on coming back nor mouth to mouth about it, Kodak done, Fuji Film, done, some of the most prominent Directors in the world, done with film, it is not RED that killed Film, even so RED sure did played an important role in this, but the moving forward of our nature, costs, time frames of deliveries, workflow, environment and much more, take and tucked all part in the killing of Film, per say.

With in the next few years as Film Stock is exhausted shooting on Film, will become like shooting Black & Withe, a pure nostalgia of a past, a great past, but a past nonetheless, and this is Progress, something that no one can stop, not even Film, might He rest in peace... ;)


So while some might express this things in a too strong, personal, fan-boysm matter there are also some of the facts to take in consideration here.
 
Ketch please don't take this personally but I don't recognise your expertise in this area. I understand you"ve shot some tests with some guys but all your posts are exactly the same :

I KNOW FACTS
THE FACTS are ONLY SHOOT MASTER PRIMES or LEICA because YOU MUST shoot on these AND RED EPIC only. If you shoot anything else YOU ARE WRONG. These are the FACTS!

Ketch, I disagree with you. I think you are a very biased person who likes to force people to accept his view. I don't accept your view. Sorry. You can keep repeating it over and over all you want.

Let me spell it out for you:

I DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF MASTER PRIMES. DO YOU GET IT?

I understand you do and that's great. There are other lenses out there which might suit other sensibilities. As there are other cameras. Guess what, some people like the Alexa over the Red. I know your chart said they were wrong but they just do. Get over it and stop saying these things are FACTS because you shot some tests and hung out with some DoP's . Come back to me when you've shot a couple of movies. I don't mean to offend but you sound like a broken record dude. Time to accept that some people feel differently about things and all the CAPITALISATION in the world isn't going to change that. Your opinion is good for you, not for everyone.
 
Personally, my approach has always been that I'll shoot with what I want to shoot with, and everyone else can make their own decisions. I don't need to convince (ususally far better) other cinematographers to shoot with Scarlet / Epic, Red has a marketing strategy and they certainly don't need any help from the likes of me.

I love RAW, I love some films shot on Alexa, and while its been a while since I've shot it, I love film. To say that film is dead is to say that nobody makes or listens to vinal records any more. Sure its less than it was, but it's still going on - and happily so.

Be 'for' things rather than 'against' things.
 
James T Mather said:
Ketch please don't take this personally but I don't recognise your expertise in this area. I understand you"ve shot some tests with some guys but all your posts are exactly the same :

I KNOW FACTS
THE FACTS are ONLY SHOOT MASTER PRIMES or LEICA because YOU MUST shoot on these AND RED EPIC only. If you shoot anything else YOU ARE WRONG. These are the FACTS!

Ketch, I disagree with you. I think you are a very biased person who likes to force people to accept his view. I don't accept your view. Sorry. You can keep repeating it over and over all you want.

Let me spell it out for you:

I DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF MASTER PRIMES. DO YOU GET IT?

I understand you do and that's great. There are other lenses out there which might suit other sensibilities. As there are other cameras. Guess what, some people like the Alexa over the Red. I know your chart said they were wrong but they just do. Get over it and stop saying these things are FACTS because you shot some tests and hung out with some DoP's . Come back to me when you've shot a couple of movies. I don't mean to offend but you sound like a broken record dude. Time to accept that some people feel differently about things and all the CAPITALISATION in the world isn't going to change that. Your opinion is good for you, not for everyone.
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I guess there are just people that simply only read what they want, and get out of it what ever context they want, don't get me wrong James and please don't take this personal neither, but you are one of this.


I state FACST based on my experience of use, like it or not, try and argue what my experience is, fact is you have no clue of it obviously.

I never say shoot anything else them Master Primes or Leica and you are wrong, I carefully outline what each Lens has as far as characteristics and artifacts or defects, and what not, I am always careful not to offend any one, while you instead, oh I don't know.

I go out of my way to test gear, and also take time, which some times I don't even have, and come here and post to share my findings and knowledge of things, so that the some in the community might find it of interest, and wedged against other findings.

Don't like Master Primes? Easy don't use them, use what ever you like, no one will tell you not to, but just don't go argue that both Technically and build wise as well as in speaking of Artifacts Breathing and Sharpness, as well as Matching Glass the Master Primes are indeed the best glass to date... FACT.

I'll not entertain a discussion further to this, you have made your opinion known, I have replied, and please continue on, don't wish to impose on any one, just don't come and argue what I know or don't.


If you love Alexa, and want to defend it so much, I suggest you join the Alexa Forum, please don't expect to come here on REDUSER and tell us not to love our camera, as I don't go to the ALexa site and put down theirs... ;)

PS: If you are referring as doen some tests with some people, as with all tests they are done in Hollywood style, not as a joke... Like the test reported here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...exa-my-kind-of-Real-world-test-Warsaw-Poland-)

Which since the DP was an Alexa lover, and fought the Producers against testing Epic, yet after an exhausting testing in this High Budget production, they purchased two RED EPIC M cameras, making my point yet again, that when it comes to resolution and best files to bring to post Alexa looses against Epic, period.

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