8K Weapon Rental Price

[Björn Benckert]

Im sure they will quite quickly land in lower D. for body with the most common accessories. The rental prices are going down with more options and high supply. I think 8k weapon will step in where dragon is today and bump the rest of the cameras down in price. As said in this thread Alexa XL is something different, it´s not possible to get hold of except renting a kit from ARRI and it´s quite a different beast, it´s available now and the sensor is 3 times the size of amira... It´s simply a bigger step between it and the lower options from arri. As it´s a rental only and there is nothing that can substitute that sensor size it rents well among those that want it and where camera rental fees is not really an issue...

And if you do the math... it´s actually so that for a producer renting in an Alexa XL for the price it comes at. It is actually less costly than shooting film if you roll a lot during the day. So for those productions that weight right between shooting film and digital the Arri XL can be a bargain. And if you look at 70mm film capture then the price for XL will make producers smile.

But I think when weapon 8k is out in big numbers then Arri has to lower the rental price for XL and or start selling it.

Also weapon 8k is far easier to handle as it has the same data rate as the current 6k weapons. the XL is a bit more difficult in that regard.

 

[M Most]

A few places? Alexa 65 is only available to rent through Arri rentals, they will not even allow sub-rentals last time I checked.
There are still not that many bodies or lens sets, so depending on what you are shooting the body is about $3000/day+ but $7500 is way off.
.

Except that you cannot rent just the camera body. Using the camera requires not only the body and lenses, but also mags to record on, and rental of a Codex Vault XL to create the .ari files. Most productions also require Vault S's to be able to offload the camera cards without delay. Hence the rather high day rate.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

The 8K Weapon's rental price will really be defined by supply. The demand ... will not be an issue.

There are not a lot of 8K RAW + ProRes high dynamic range cameras you can hold in the palm of your hand.

 

[Luke Neumann]

Im sure they will quite quickly land in lower D.

I don't know...the vibe I have been getting from Jarred is "production is slow" so that means more time for those early adopters to have a hot commodity. I agree it will probably end up there but I don't see it happening for a year at least.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I don't know...the vibe I have been getting from Jarred is "production is slow" so that means more time for those early adopters to have a hot commodity. I agree it will probably end up there but I don't see it happening for a year at least.[/QUOTE

Agree, As long as it´s only enough of them to cover the needs for Hollywood blockbusters then yes, day rates will be very hight I think.

Also those early in line "Forge CF" owners that ordered the upgrade at nab will for sure make a bundle. I mean with 4 day rental week you need a 3 weeks booking to bring back the cost for that upgrade. And by the time they get it hope fully the Forged is already paid off.

I ordered early but I regret today that I just did not just got a Forged instead of Woven. I never though the delivery time difference would be as big as it actually was between the two. But when I get my 8k I will be happy to rent it out for 1000 USD / day to the right client with the base accessories.

But normally we do not rent out just the camera, but a crew and other stuff to go with it. Then the camera cost is usually the smallest number in the quote.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I heard it from a few places but I don't recall exactly where. What did you hear it was at?

ArriRental in Los Angeles. I don't think Alexa 65 available anywhere else except on the East coast. And you'd also most likely want the Codex Digital recorder for it, which would be an extra charge... and a boat load of storage.

At 2% (assuming the price is $80,000) it would be $1,600 for the brain. I can see that. Maybe higher for a while until more people have them?

That would be my guess. But the moment owner/operators come into the picture and slash the price, it affects what happens with the rental houses. They can sometimes make it up with package deals, but there's a lot of "it depends" factored in.

What I think everybody still neglects is the enormous cost of dealing with 8K files in post. In addition to the camera rental and storage, you're still going to need somebody to transcode all the files to something manageable like 4K... unless and until there's a reliable real-time 8K solution out there for editing, color correction, and VFX. And 8K projection and monitoring.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Rocket X available :emote_couch::emote_couch::emote_couch::emote_couch::emote_couch::emote_couch:

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

My original statement was clearly defining Full Frame Cinema Cameras. If you want to have a discussion comparing a FS7 or A7sii to a 8K Red Weapon Cinema camera, thats fine, but you have to have it with someone else.

Oh that didn't seem to be explicitly stated or defined. I don't mean to compare them directly but your statement makes it sound like the sensor size is completely unique and otherwise unobtainable so I only meant to remind you it's sensor size is not necessarily so special on its own, but obviously the camera itself has other merits and flaws compared to other cameras.

As for rental prices I tend to imagine rental houses will be in the C range and owners operators in the D range for full packages...

 

[PatrickFaith]

With such an experimental camera, I'd think you'd want to rent 2 minimum and have another that would be on call (going back and forth to RED). You'd also have onset support and 24 hour turn around on the 3rd camera. That would be an 3 camera investment on the rental house side with all that support cost covered (i.e. 500$ overnight fedex bills, drive to location, etc ...). I think this is why some manufacturers do a "rent only" model for this high end gear, since I doubt many red users would be this fanitical if they had a 8k camera. So I think the camera needs to be production tested for 6 months before it would be "ready" for normal 1 camera rentals/rates, this 6 month delay also effects the rental rate since it wouldn't get the super scarcity rental rates.

 

[Nick Fury]

...

Also those early in line "Forge CF" owners that ordered the upgrade at nab will for sure make a bundle. I mean with 4 day rental week you need a 3 weeks booking to bring back the cost for that upgrade. And by the time they get it hope fully the Forged is already paid off.

I ordered early but I regret today that I just did not just got a Forged instead of Woven. I never though the delivery time difference would be as big as it actually was between the two. But when I get my 8k I will be happy to rent it out for 1000 USD / day to the right client with the base accessories....

Hi Björn!

Unless the 8K upgrade list has been altered, the order's time stamp, after NAB announcement, governs 8K sensor upgrade position, irrespective of Woven or Forged body.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Elsie N]

Hi Björn!

Unless the 8K upgrade list has been altered, the order's time stamp, after NAB announcement, governs 8K sensor upgrade position, irrespective of Woven or Forged body.

Thank you very much

Fury

My understanding as well. The Forged is first in line when the 8k orders are opened again.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Hi Björn!

Unless the 8K upgrade list has been altered, the order's time stamp, after NAB announcement, governs 8K sensor upgrade position, irrespective of Woven or Forged body.

Thank you very much

Fury

Maybe you are right, I can´t recall where I read or heard that forged would be first in line, but show that was my understanding. And to me that would not be more than right as they payed quite a hefty prime to get their cameras.

 

[Brad Grimm]

Maybe you are right, I can´t recall where I read or heard that forged would be first in line, but show that was my understanding. And to me that would not be more than right as they payed quite a hefty prime to get their cameras.

Here is the direct quote:


Originally Posted by Brent@RED
Jarred: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."What this means, the NAB special $10,000 preorders for 8K will all be allocated by time/date stamp. That is only criteria.

 

[Nick Fury]

Maybe you are right, I can´t recall where I read or heard that forged would be first in line, but show that was my understanding. And to me that would not be more than right as they payed quite a hefty prime to get their cameras.

Hi Björn!

Actually, for those of us (me) who, when the opportunity presented to choose Forged or Woven, enquired regarding the 8K [FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]prioritization, a major inflection point was the prioritization of 8K upgrades. For me, the scales tipped to Woven, as I adjudicated that the 8K sensor prioitization was strong enough. All RED camera owners/prospective owners weigh the unknowns of the temporal execution of various RED offerings, including upgrades, and, of course, one end user's criteria may not be coincident with another's. If it weren't for all the money involved, at the end user level, it would be high theatre... Come to think of it, it actually is.

Thank you very much

Fury[/FONT]

 

[Elsie N]

Here is the direct quote:


Originally Posted by Brent@RED
Jarred: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."What this means, the NAB special $10,000 preorders for 8K will all be allocated by time/date stamp. That is only criteria.

Settled Law.

 

[jordan levy]

i have a tech question about the 8k weapon…
i wonder if it will have a full sensor size recording mode, but a dumb downed or down scaled in camera output.
basically shooting a 8k size sensor, but capturing a 4k raw file.
that would make it useable for me, producers and post people get mad at me for shooting even 5k!
but i want the big sensor look for some thing, so that could be nice.

also, you cant rent an alexa65 right now ive tried 3 times and the pkg is 6-8000 a day, if available, but the few that are made are out on films, all the time.

 

[Phil Holland]

i have a tech question about the 8k weapon…
i wonder if it will have a full sensor size recording mode, but a dumb downed or down scaled in camera output.
basically shooting a 8k size sensor, but capturing a 4k raw file.
that would make it useable for me, producers and post people get mad at me for shooting even 5k!
but i want the big sensor look for some thing, so that could be nice.

also, you cant rent an alexa65 right now ive tried 3 times and the pkg is 6-8000 a day, if available, but the few that are made are out on films, all the time.

If it was scaled it would not be "RAW". You could in effect shoot your ProRes file and hand that over I guess.

I'm currently working with 8K .R3Ds. It's really not heavy if you've shot 6K 3:1 for instance.

8K DPX or TIF sequences will be heavy for houses however, but at this point it's manageable IMO.

 

[jordan levy]

If it was scaled it would not be "RAW". You could in effect shoot your ProRes file and hand that over I guess.

I'm currently working with 8K .R3Ds. It's really not heavy if you've shot 6K 3:1 for instance.

8K DPX or TIF sequences will be heavy for houses however, but at this point it's manageable IMO.

ah so true phil, im just looking at a way i can shoot a large sensor project and be production friendly, i guess the answer is offer them up prores or dnxhd if they want that look.

 

[Brian Merlen]

i have a tech question about the 8k weapon…
i wonder if it will have a full sensor size recording mode, but a dumb downed or down scaled in camera output.
basically shooting a 8k size sensor, but capturing a 4k raw file.
that would make it useable for me, producers and post people get mad at me for shooting even 5k!
but i want the big sensor look for some thing, so that could be nice.

also, you cant rent an alexa65 right now ive tried 3 times and the pkg is 6-8000 a day, if available, but the few that are made are out on films, all the time.

in theory you can give them 4K prores or something made off 8k

 

[Clark McCauley]

https://www.borrowlenses.com/product/RED-Weapon-6K-Dragon-Sensor-Camera