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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

8K Post - The Reality

soren k jensen said:
Mark you're right. Out of curiosity, what are those three lenses?
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Should have said 5...


Canon 100mm Macro. (tested 3 to get one sharp one)
RED 300mm 2.8
Zeiss Planar 55 & 105mm (HASSLEBLAD medium format lens) rehoused into PL.
And stupidly and non expected, A RED 18 to 50 zoom lens. (first gen) - not all are the same.

None of my other Ziess, Cookes, Angenieux, canons, nikons can match the sharpness of those 5 lenses.

But again.. i must add, these are not my chosen lenses for shooting, even though they are razor sharp, the roughness of some of my older lenses are why I use them.
I'm not after clarity or resolved sharpness ... , I'm after character,charm and romance.

8k will reduce noise and make you images smoother...
 
Phil Holland said:
The real kick will be if you are attempting to have good edge and corner performance on a lot of the FF35 glass and there's where I see many reasons to explore MF glass. There's some gems out there though. Anything recent from Zeiss fits the bill nicely when it comes to technical merit, contrast, micro-contrasst, and general sharpness. I can't say much for sure until I have all this glass on the 8K sensor. I have pretty much everything at my disposal here when it comes to FF35 and certain MF glass. I'm really curious to see what "sings" on 8K Dragon.
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I was going to sell these are few years ago... But now that the 8k sensor is out. I'll be sure to be keeping them now. They easily cover 6x8 cms.
Got them all from 25mm up to 180mm.
Ill see if I can find pics of the larger brighter lenses, most are T2.

Med_format_glass.jpg
 
Phil Holland said:
Nice Mark. Tilt + Shift is going to be a lot of fun on the larger sensor too.
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Yeah the shift / tilt is ok.. But I don't really go crazy with it. I'd rather use them straight like primes, How ever... I'm starting to get clients wanting to get into that "shift tilt LOOK" again..
You do have shits loads of control so you can get highly creative with them compared to a stand prime.
But they are fiddly.

Typical with trends and styles. They always come back....
 
I missed the story part... :)

In the end lens choice and story choice kinda go together, it's all about the story you wanna drive through those lenses. I'd love to see a test that shoots the same scene with actors and the same lighting to see if any of the lenses drive a different story.

just my 2 cents.
 
I have some FD lenses that will resolve 8k for sure. the 135mm f2 FD is has scary good resolution. But I´m not after the lens resolution. What I´m after is the sensor size and clean image from downsampling. 8k scaled to 4k even with a soft lens will look tons better. I´m so curios about the progress of the weapon. it says it does QTXQ.... that means possibility for 16 bit quicktime. If that QTXQ compression is done from 8k after downsampling, which i think it is... well then that is very much likely to be a 2k or 4k image ( been talko about 4k process) that holds better quality than anything we seen from C mos sensors.

The down scale before compression in combo with the high number of pixels will make mad difference to noise ratios etc. and the difference with QTXQ 16 bit and raw is very minimal. there are different benefits for the two but no r3d raw will not be the obvious choice if your only concern is quality of the final image, I think.

So as red has made it possible to shoot both at once is really leaving all doors open to make the decision in post.


You don't know how big envy I got for that swing shift setup Mark. I really been thinking of getting a FD swing shift and mount mark roberts focus motors onto the swing shift nobs... so I can program the swinging action trough out a camera move. But so far the clients only looked at me strange when trying to sell them the idea... So put it in your next treatment and we do it. Simple enough to hook the markroberts zoom and iris motors to the two knobs and let it go nuts :)
 
Björn Benckert said:
You don't know how big envy I got for that swing shift setup Mark. I really been thinking of getting a FD swing shift and mount mark roberts focus motors onto the swing shift nobs... so I can program the swinging action trough out a camera move. But so far the clients only looked at me strange when trying to sell them the idea... So put it in your next treatment and we do it. Simple enough to hook the markroberts zoom and iris motors to the two knobs and let it go nuts :)
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This, I want to see and I am guessing that with you two it just will probably happen!
 
Mark Toia said:
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I think the lens test was poorly conceived because it was shot on a RED Epic.

I've often said the RED cameras level the playing field between expensive and inexpensive lenses because the camera can make an image from a cheap lens look good. And perhaps having realized this is why I think RED may have gotten out of the lens business.

If it covers the sensor, it's good enough to shoot, IMO.
 
Mark Toia said:
I was going to sell these are few years ago... But now that the 8k sensor is out. I'll be sure to be keeping them now. They easily cover 6x8 cms.
Got them all from 25mm up to 180mm.
Ill see if I can find pics of the larger brighter lenses, most are T2.

Med_format_glass.jpg
Click to expand...

Is that the Clairmont rig? I used to love that setup!

Maybe I still do.
 
Some specific questions regarding 8K workflow... anyone know the answers?

Will an Apple nMacPro with the fastest CPU, maxed with RAM and the better GPUs be capable of handling 8K R3D's using Premiere?

Will either AJA or BlackMagic video capture cards be able to handle 8K realtime downsampling to HD monitors?

I'm not worried about Resolve running on Linux.

If neither are practical, I guess we could use the ProRes proxies from the weapon for offline. Maybe that's part of the intent. If you can't handle the 8K footage in a normal workflow, you resort to the ProRes files through offline, then grade from 8K to whatever target resolution.

Will a Rocket X plus multiple GPUs provide better playback that just GPU support alone?

Thoughts?
M
 
Mark Pedersen said:
Will a Rocket X plus multiple GPUs provide better playback that just GPU support alone?
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As of today, yes. Rocket X does both decode and debyer. GPU does debayer, decode is done on CPU. Today you can use EITHER GPU or RRX. Hoping one day that RRX can decode while GPU can debayer. In my case, I use ADD for everything, which is CPU only I believe.
 
I put the response in bold.

Mark Pedersen said:
Some specific questions regarding 8K workflow... anyone know the answers?

Will an Apple nMacPro with the fastest CPU, maxed with RAM and the better GPUs be capable of handling 8K R3D's using Premiere?

No. The current nMP can't handle 6K or 5K FF 3:1, so unless you're referring to high compression 8K R3D's, you'll need to look at a different machine

Will either AJA or BlackMagic video capture cards be able to handle 8K realtime downsampling to HD monitors?

Nothing official yet, so this would be speculation at this point. BMD is just getting around to 12G variants of the ultrastudio and decklink, so I wouldn't expect them to even announce movement on this until NAB or later 2016.

I'm not worried about Resolve running on Linux.

If neither are practical, I guess we could use the ProRes proxies from the weapon for offline. Maybe that's part of the intent. If you can't handle the 8K footage in a normal workflow, you resort to the ProRes files through offline, then grade from 8K to whatever target resolution.

Same offline workflows that have always been implemented for large online file sizes

Will a Rocket X plus multiple GPUs provide better playback that just GPU support alone?

NVidia and AMD's latest generation cards don't match the RRX when discussing purely R3D's, so this is likely a YES even if Nvidia were to release a Titan-X 2 or an AMD 490X2 in 2016/17. Now if we're purely talking return on investment, 3 Titan-X cards with a pair of fast 12/14 core Xeon V3's may be a better investment vs the RRX if we're talking how to best stretch your $6750.
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So I put an 7k r3d raw resolve timeline to render out in 7k prores 422HQ last night. Nowin the morning resolve has stopped on 99% and does not seam to finnish the file. From looking at the file in the browser it´s 680Gb.
Any clue whats going on why does it not close / finnish the file?
 
Björn Benckert said:
So I put an 7k r3d raw resolve timeline to render out in 7k prores 422HQ last night. Nowin the morning resolve has stopped on 99% and does not seam to finnish the file. From looking at the file in the browser it´s 680Gb.
Any clue whats going on why does it not close / finnish the file?
Click to expand...

Things like that have happen to me with lesser resolutions as well. 680gb, how long is the footage supposed to be?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Things like that have happen to me with lesser resolutions as well. 680gb, how long is the footage supposed to be?
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I think it actually rendered the whole thing. I saw it go almost to the end and then went home to catch some sleep. So I think it´s just the closure of the file that did not happen. Now we dit it across network both reading and writing so I´m thinking tigersan could be the issue even though I have not seen it before.

Now we just got our 1080 ti cards delivered and we popped one in this machine together with a USB-C card all according to Jarreds Facebook post on the matter so will se what the speed increase will be compared to the earlier Quadro k6500. Think if we get a good raid on the USB-C things will move much faster and hopefully also close the files. So tonight we give it another try. :)


Another strange thing. Did the grading on one OSX resolve machine. Then exporting the project, opening it on another OSX machine, same version of resolve same files same evertything except os version the later one is Sierra 10.12.4 and then one where we actually did the grade was El capitan.... Now the later is rendering with a lower / more greenish gamma. / more contrasty. Tired everything with / without GPU debarring etc but still the machines render the files differenty. Was hoping we could work on one machine and render on the other. but I guess not. or anyone knows what this issue could be?
 
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