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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

6k Mag Weapon vs. 6k Epic Dragon

Bob Gundu said:
It's more than $14000 to upgrade just to clarify. You mean 19K to Magnesium after the trade in.
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You can use the $5k accessory credit towards the upgrade price, so yeah, $14000. This is what my rep told me.
 
Phil Holland said:
Ah. Well Jarred mentioned there would be a path for MG Weapon owners to go to 8K. It's likely going to be priced a bit higher than the CF Weapon 8K Dragon. We're also a good chunk away from that.

Though to be honest. I wouldn't mind Weapon 8K Dragon being released in July as well. Pretty excited to shoot specifically at this format and resolution for a while.
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+1 i can't wait !!!

New showreel on www.camlight.nl
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
You can use the $5k accessory credit towards the upgrade price, so yeah, $14000. This is what my rep told me.
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My understanding of equipment credits is "after invoiced" - that specifically means you can't apply an accessory credit to your upgrade price. You get the credit after you've paid, RED complete the upgrade, and the camera is ready to ship back to you. Unless something has changed?

Either way, I think the accessory credit should be considered a good will bonus highly necessary to augment your kit with the new module/interface standard. I love that RED recognize this by way of providing this bonus accessory credit to those of us upgrading.
 
I think Jarred hinted at 3 sizes in the sensor -> brain -> sensor discussion some time back.

Phil Holland said:
It would be interesting if RED proceeds with two sensor sizes for future technology actually, and that's pretty much what's going on with the 8K and 6K Weapon Dragon sensors. Heck maybe 3 sensor sizes could be possible if the market could support it. <snip>
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With 1/2 a stop improved signal to noise - And a 50% increase in SSD write rate - I am curious of Higher frame rate of the cropped sensor will mean greater fidelity on a Weapon than the equivalent Epic Dragon.

Random Thought : Weapon dragon 8k : I guess Red need to up Both the readout rate of their sensor - and - the write rate to SSD to get 120 FF fps (or more). I wonder if read-out circuit is independent of the sensor ... ot if the 8k circuit would be forced to use exactly the same rate.... (still dreaming for HFR!)

AJ
 
The 5K policy changed, such that it now is for Aks only and canNOT be applied to upgrade pricing. Really non event, for almost everyone, in the long run, though, since that budget will no doubt, eventually exceed 5K.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
Antony Newman said:
(snip) Random Thought : Weapon dragon 8k : I guess Red need to up Both the readout rate of their sensor - and - the write rate to SSD to get 120 FF fps (or more). I wonder if read-out circuit is independent of the sensor ... ot if the 8k circuit would be forced to use exactly the same rate.... (still dreaming for HFR!) AJ
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At NAB we were told that the Weapon could not offer higher frame rates, despite it's higher spec electronics, as the sensor itself capped out. I took that to mean that the read-out circuitry was part of the sensor block.

Cheers - #19
 
Thanks Blair.

I guess Red could either develope a High Speed 8k dragon sensor, or go for a new sensor technology for HFR.

If Jan 2016 is when the Dragon 8k sensor comes out ... I a guess HFR 8k sensor is unlikely to come out until (speculative!) at least Jan 2017 .. and at the very latest 2019 in time for the Olympic games. (June 2018 perhaps?)

AJ
 
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Blair S. Paulsen said:
At NAB we were told that the Weapon could not offer higher frame rates, despite it's higher spec electronics, as the sensor itself capped out. I took that to mean that the read-out circuitry was part of the sensor block.

Cheers - #19
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Higher framerates also limit dynamic range.

I don't really care about 8K. Gimme a VistaVision 4K camera with 1000fps+
 
Horses for courses. The Phantom 4K Flex makes a credible 24fps image, but the Epic Dragon offers far more IQ at "normal" sync speeds. I've captured some nice looking 200fps footy with the Dragon, but I've also shot some over crank that showed some noise/artifacts from higher compression ratios and, due to windowing, lack of enough over sampling to tighten up UHD deliverables.

For critical budgeted work I draw the line at 150fps for Epic Dragon, above that is where the 4K Flex shows it's virtues. YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
I can see low light improving as a feature, but that fix for the CMOS smearing on the Weapon Dragon instead of taking care of it on the Epic Dragon is total bullshit.
 
Phil Holland said:
It would be interesting if RED proceeds with two sensor sizes for future technology actually, and that's pretty much what's going on with the 8K and 6K Weapon Dragon sensors. Heck maybe 3 sensor sizes could be possible if the market could support it. This is indeed a world of 4K and eventually 8K production these days and it makes sense to me. I use 6K-5K formats mostly on Epic Dragon for my shoots depending on their needs and all of that gets pushed out at 4K at the end of the day.
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My personal wishlist for Red-stuff:

- 4:3 S35 sensor option
- Lossless RAW compression
- No skulls or war/kill/death inspired naming
- Internal ND
- Global shutter
- The best EVF the world has seen, showing an area around the S35 format, when not shooting open gate, and a refresh rate higher than the shooting format. I.e showing 48 fps a second in the EVF, when shooting 24fps at 180 degree shutter
- Battery solution without wires that can be adjusted horizontally (z-axis) for camera balance, without interference with the bottom rods
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
My personal wishlist for Red-stuff:

- 4:3 S35 sensor option
- Lossless RAW compression
- No skulls or war/kill/death inspired naming
- Internal ND
- Global shutter
- The best EVF the world has seen, showing an area around the S35 format, when not shooting open gate, and a refresh rate higher than the shooting format. I.e showing 48 fps a second in the EVF, when shooting 24fps at 180 degree shutter
- Battery solution without wires that can be adjusted horizontally (z-axis) for camera balance, without interference with the bottom rods
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Couple of thoughts to your wishlist:
- Weapon 8K Dragon exceeds the height of S35 at 4:3 and you would have a handsome amount of look around.
- Lossless would be interesting.
- The new Weapon EVF sounds like it's a new design.
- Interesting idea about the "track adjustable" battery. Though some sort of accordion or wire would likely be needed to connect to the body.

I get the desires for Internal NDs and Global Shutter.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
My personal wishlist for Red-stuff:

- 4:3 S35 sensor option
- Lossless RAW compression
- No skulls or war/kill/death inspired naming
- Internal ND
- Global shutter
- The best EVF the world has seen, showing an area around the S35 format, when not shooting open gate, and a refresh rate higher than the shooting format. I.e showing 48 fps a second in the EVF, when shooting 24fps at 180 degree shutter
- Battery solution without wires that can be adjusted horizontally (z-axis) for camera balance, without interference with the bottom rods
Click to expand...

Why 4:3 ? even Arri changed their minds and choose same path with RED by going 6:5
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Why 4:3 ? even Arri changed their minds and choose same path with RED by going 6:5
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Exactly how a S35 4:3 area should be covered, I'm not sure about, my only point is that there should be something below the 8k VistaVision to do S35 anamorphic, in my wishful thinking, atleast...
 
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