Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

5K vs. 4K...

Timur Civan said:
It's called marketing.

Sony tried the "let the footage speak for itself" with the F3 and F65, most people have no idea how good they both are. That's poor marketing.


Keeping your brand in the spotlight is how you move units. Look at apple.
Click to expand...


well i get that .... but then even more so: why even the need to bother with sony's #TheNewF ;)
 
Because someone is bringing something of a competitor to the table and with an estimated low price to say "your move". Red responded. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
 
Dmitry Burenok said:
:yesnod:You can simply unlock 5K WS 24P in Scarlet and say good bye to 4K tailgaters, Jim.:yesnod: It'll keep them busy for another 2 years or so. And probably takes your software team less than a day to have it in next update:yesnod:
Click to expand...

Love this :D

The maths says it's possible...

4K @ 30fps (Scarlet Current Max Data Throughput)
4096*2160 = 8847360 pixels * 30fps = 265420800 pixels per second

5K Widescreen (2.37:1) @ 24fps
5120x2160 = 11059200 pixels * 24fps = 265420800 pixels per second

Having said that, I'm in PAL land so 24fps isn't all that useful for me :'(
 
Last edited:
Michael P. Schmidt said:
well its sad that this 4k vs. 5k post is needed (or at least that someone feels the need to post that... no offence! ;-) ) .... the footage and cam should show that ( what it does actually ) ... and every DP knows why he chooses what camera (or at least he should know) he does not need that kind of post .... (just a thought tho' ;)
Click to expand...

The way I read the post was that to get truly 4k resolution out of the sensor, you need to shoot 5k. Jim is just saying that the competitors are where the R-1 was when it came out and though the sensor is 4k, it only resolves to something in the 3k+ range. He was just offering that as a reminder, at least that's how I saw it.
 
Brad Allen said:
Love this :D

The maths says it's possible...

4K @ 30fps (Scarlet Current Max Data Throughput)
4096*2160 = 8847360 pixels * 30fps = 265420800 pixels per second

5K Widescreen (2.37:1) @ 24fps
5120x2160 = 11059200 pixels * 24fps = 265420800 pixels per second

Having said that, I'm in PAL land so 24fps isn't all that useful for me :'(
Click to expand...
Hey, it's just a computer... maybe they can overclock it. '-)
 
As the market continues to flood with new 4K displays over the course of the next two years clients will desirhigh quality material. It's going to be all about creating the best 4K master. Super sampling from higher resolutions such as 5K and 6K makes a ton of sense. Especially on debayer sensor technology. This has been proven.
 
Even Sony knew not to limit anything to the number 4... the F65 is (eh hem) 8K after all. Red started the resolution fight and I am still banking on them winning due to redcode.

Resolution is great Jim, but its your Redcode that allows it to be a manageable workflow. Currently misunderstood by many... savored by those who understand the power
and more importantly FREEDOM of RAW. Thanks to Redcode we have processing choices. For cinema... its priceless for stils the same. for TV. We now have Meizler.


Most definitely,"like the Fact checking in the debates", do I want to read posts like this. Thanks Jim. A lot of us get it. Regardless of price
 
Fun fact:

ARRI Alexa is that popular bcuz of:

edit friendly ProRes to a simple storage media

footage looks just awesome / has great dynamic range

solid / reliable / "easy to use"

oh and it has an ARRI sign on the side

...nobody cares about that its "only" a 1080p camera in the end ;)
 
Timur Civan said:
Because someone is bringing something of a competitor to the table and with an estimated low price to say "your move". Red responded. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Click to expand...

again would it not be cooler just to respond with the footage out of the camera ... would that not be more professional / more mature?
to this point sony did not show any footage ....well but RED can show off that ....no? ;)
 
Jannard said:
There is a reason we made a 5K camera.

The RED ONE was originally a 4K camera. With its Bayer pattern, it resolved 3.2K in a 4K package. Over 4 times the measured resolution of the best 1080P camera.

1080P is also a package size, not a measured resolution. The very best 1080P camera measures 1.7K of nervous resolution inside the 1080P package.

The reason we built a 5K camera is that it "fills up" a 4K package with resolution. Over 5 times the measured resolution of a 1080P camera and equivalent to IMAX that is processed in a 4K chain.

5K sensors have 60+% more pixels than a 4K camera. This is significant.

So when you compare 4K cameras... keep this in mind.

Additionally, there is a HUGE difference when extracting stills from motion.

We did not make EPIC 5K by accident.

Jim
Click to expand...

Apple was rumored to be working on a 5k IMac display, but now you are going 6k. :)
 
Michael P. Schmidt said:
again would it not be cooler just to respond with the footage out of the camera ... would that not be more professional / more mature?
to this point sony did not show any footage ....well but RED can show off that ....no? ;)
Click to expand...

Yea... It's called Prometheus. ;)
 
You are absolutely right Jim, and this is why we are eagerly awaiting the coming of DRAGON, not only because of better DR, and Noise handling, but exactly also because of its better higher resolution which amongst other things, will allow for an even better 4K finish, room to give POST space to look around and perfectly frame, stabilize etc. and for those like me increase Print Size on those gorgeous Stills pulled from Motion... ;)
 
Michael P. Schmidt said:
again would it not be cooler just to respond with the footage out of the camera ... would that not be more professional / more mature?
to this point sony did not show any footage ....well but RED can show off that ....no? ;)
Click to expand...

I appreciate your loyalty to your home land product. As an American that builds most our stuff overseas... we cant expect you to understand. meantime... why are all these major motion pictures choosing Epic?
Because they look fucking incredible. Alexa is the Sony of film... their is a legacy brand loyalty that is more ferocious than early apple ... we all love Arri... but not "Arri-gance.".. so do please get off your attack
perch and lets project where Red is in 94 years... when she is the same age as Arri :)
 
Jannard said:
We did not make EPIC 5K by accident.

Jim
Click to expand...

Keep it coming Brother ...


I still cant see how all this power fits in this box.
perfect_camera.jpg
 
Has anybody spoken about the bit rate? I'm not a tech-head but I thought the EPIC chews up 12 bit; this new SONY is...8 bit? The difference between analogue (the world we live in) and the ability of digital technology to resolve that, is down to the power to resolve...colours. The EPIC, at 12 bit, sees it in millions. While 8 bit resolves in hundreds of thousands? Happy to stand corrected on that. As for the clutch of new Canon offers, motion JPEG? At rates so outrageous you won't need Bricks to power 'em but bricks to record it. All the cards have been played. RED holds the rest and will play them out over the next 24. It is great to be on the other side of the fence for a change though and see some dollars go back to the US.
 
Elsie N said:
The way I read the post was that to get truly 4k resolution out of the sensor, you need to shoot 5k. Jim is just saying that the competitors are where the R-1 was when it came out and though the sensor is 4k, it only resolves to something in the 3k+ range. He was just offering that as a reminder, at least that's how I saw it.
Click to expand...

Yep. Many people still don't understand or aren't aware of the package size versus measured resolution.

They don't know they're not getting the full 4K (or 1280K, 1920K, 2.5K, 2.7K, 3.5K ) worth of picture and it's something most other companies moving into 2K+ sensors aren't making clear to customers.

Many people are seeing the F55 as an Epic killer but it probably resolves in the same neighborhood as the Scarlet at 4K.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top