5k, 6k, or 8k what would you pick?

[devon lyons]

Please Help!
What would you choose?

Let's say you have about a $30k budget and a Scarlet W deposit prior to 10/11. Like everyone else you need a camera now... cause my next action sports doc starts shooting in a month and it would be great to shoot it on a RED start to finish. I want that beautiful RED slowmo so bad! The 8k wouldn't be used much but sure would be cool to have...future proof, yay! And for lower light the Helium looks great!

Options:

1) 6k) Get a used Epic X now for about $20k+ ready for battle and start shooting with it. Then when my Scarlet W is allocated get that and have both a Epic X and a Scarlet W for about $33K total. That's right, two REDs for that price and would have an Epic 6k now plus a Scarlet W in 4-6 months. Then sell one after trying them both.

2) 8k) Wait and hope to get an Epic W soon, put together a less expensive kit for it and have the Epic W for $30k but have to wait who knows how long.

3) 5k) Keep waiting for the Scarlet W, build a sweet kit with 7'' CF monitor, lots of mini mags, side handle, etc. But could be another 4, 5, 6 months wait. On the plus, it's about $7k more in savings account.

Another way to look at it:
1) Scarlet W + $13k build (total $23k) - 6 month wait maybe
2) Epic X used nice build (total $22k) - now
3) Epic W + $11k build (total $31K) - not sure about wait time

I want a DSMC2 camera with built in Wifi and such but having an Epic X now for the price of used ones is making the decision difficult. If I get an Epic X now for a really good price I could flip it when the Scarlet W is available or keep both cameras if needed.

On the other hand, going with the Epic W is expensive and as an owner/operator maybe not needed, but saving $10k on a $30k camera seems like a good investment. And, it's the latest and greatest so should be relevant for a long time right? If I go with the Epic W I will have to sell me FS7 and go full RED.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Please Help!
What would you choose?

Let's say you have about a $30k budget and a Scarlet W deposit prior to 10/11. Like everyone else you need a camera now... cause my next action sports doc starts shooting in a month and it would be great to shoot it on a RED start to finish. I want that beautiful RED slowmo so bad! The 8k wouldn't be used much but sure would be cool to have...future proof, yay! And for lower light the Helium looks great!

Options:

1) 6k) Get a used Epic X now for about $20k+ ready for battle and start shooting with it. Then when my Scarlet W is allocated get that and have both a Epic X and a Scarlet W for about $33K total. That's right, two REDs for that price and would have an Epic 6k now plus a Scarlet W in 4-6 months. Then sell one after trying them both.

2) 8k) Wait and hope to get an Epic W soon, put together a less expensive kit for it and have the Epic W for $30k but have to wait who knows how long.

3) 5k) Keep waiting for the Scarlet W, build a sweet kit with 7'' CF monitor, lots of mini mags, side handle, etc. But could be another 4, 5, 6 months wait. On the plus, it's about $7k more in savings account.

Another way to look at it:
1) Scarlet W + $13k build (total $23k) - 6 month wait maybe
2) Epic X used nice build (total $22k) - now
3) Epic W + $11k build (total $31K) - not sure about wait time

I want a DSMC2 camera with built in Wifi and such but having an Epic X now for the price of used ones is making the decision difficult. If I get an Epic X now for a really good price I could flip it when the Scarlet W is available or keep both cameras if needed.

On the other hand, going with the Epic W is expensive and as an owner/operator maybe not needed, but saving $10k on a $30k camera seems like a good investment. And, it's the latest and greatest so should be relevant for a long time right? If I go with the Epic W I will have to sell me FS7 and go full RED.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Are Ravens in stock?

i would say get a Raven, get every DSMC 2 Accessory you need, then you only need to think about the Scarlet brain when it arrives. You'll definitely need to get 8 to 10K worth of accessories.

I would suggest getting the Epic X now but only if they give you a complete package for about 15K max. That way you would shoot your doc now, it would look great still, make you earn money and then invest on either the W or the Scarlet. If you change ownership to your name you can get the X and then trade it in at the end of the year for 20K for the W.

 

[Richard Coburn]

The thing that makes me undecided about Epic W is the fact that I shoot a lot of 50fps stuff and it would be a sensor crop with that camera. To get that framerate it looks like I'd need to drop it to 6k but how would that affect all my lenses? This is the hardest issue for me to get my head around with 8K, with the Dragon I know I'm using everything and hardly ever drop down in resolution.

Having said that, if you get into the DSMC2 line up, there's a good chance that you'll still be eligible for upgrades down the track and being eligible for that is one of the best things about owning a Red.

But, if you've got 20k worth of work you can charge it out to now then a camera in the hand is worth two in the bush. My Epic dragon is an awesome camera and regardless of the new stuff will serve me well for many a year if I need it to.

Sorry I don't have a definite answer as these thing are going through my head too trying to work out the next step for me.


Cheers
Rich

 

[Björn Benckert]

Agree,
Get any DSMC2 that you can get now. Wait for a helium... we don't know when those are actually shipping. But as long as you stay with DSMC2 you can always swap out the brain later and keep all the accessories.

 

[devon lyons]

Thanks Sergio,
I think there is still a long wait for Ravens. I have considered trying to track down a used one, but I would like to have at least a 5k image to play. I like to do some reframing and stablizing with the amount of gimbal work I do and want to be able to deliver in 4k. There are some nice Epics that come up on eBay from someone who sends them back to RED and includes the price of ownership transfer and 90 day warranty. The price with a 5' monitor, 120gb card, card reader and case is about $15k or less. I do think getting an Epic now would be a great way to go.

 

[devon lyons]

Haha... "camera in hand is worth two in the bush" . Well put. This is great, thanks for the feedback. I really just want to hear feedback and thoughts on what other RED users think as this is my first RED purchase.

 

[Phil Holland]

If some big productions do not want to process 6K footage due to the amount of data, do you think they would be willing to use Helium at a 5K/4K crop, knowing that the FOV is even smaller than Dragon?

There's many workflows. I've seen Netflix productions use everything from 6K-4K. There is no one answer.

 

[Akin A]

There's many workflows. I've seen Netflix productions use everything from 6K-4K. There is no one answer.

lol, I actually deleted my post before you replied because I remembered that there's a 8K FOV to 4K ProRes/DNX option that answers my question, potentially.

 

[Aaron Nanto]

Thanks Sergio,
I think there is still a long wait for Ravens. I have considered trying to track down a used one, but I would like to have at least a 5k image to play. I like to do some reframing and stablizing with the amount of gimbal work I do and want to be able to deliver in 4k. There are some nice Epics that come up on eBay from someone who sends them back to RED and includes the price of ownership transfer and 90 day warranty. The price with a 5' monitor, 120gb card, card reader and case is about $15k or less. I do think getting an Epic now would be a great way to go.

Yes, there is still a long wait for Ravens - they have not yet hit any December 2015 pre-orders yet....

 

[Brody_B]

The $10k discount should be enough to make it clear. Also from the sound of it Epic-W sensors are going to be manufactured faster than Dragon...??, and I would guess there are less people in that line than S-W. Just buy the big one. you know you want to. :ihih:

 

[M.Halsell]

Follow the technology forward. Anything in the Dragon family is capable, accessories all fit the new stuff. Tempting to pickup a good deal on older sensor tech, no harm no foul, but qualitywise the Dragon and Helium offer very few ccompromises and are somewhat future proof. The delivery situation is in Red"s lap to reach the common man level of approval, assurances have been made, that ink is still fresh.

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

I think it really depends on the work you do. Dragon is beautiful and if you shoot a lot of high fps because of action sports, it could be a better camera for you to have.
I personally believe that the EPIC Dragon is still a more capable and versatile camera than the Scarlet-W, apart from few beautiful DSMC2 features. And option 1 for you is open.

If you think you will need the extra resolution, better low-light, or need DSMC2 capabilities in the immediate future, then go Epic-W.
If so, call your RED rep and get a sense on how long for a Epic-W upgrade.
They won't give you a straight answer, but you will understand if it is risky for you to miss your project.

I also think that some dealers might honor the upgrade path. I am not sure about it though.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Call me crazy, but I'd say don't buy anything and instead, just rent the camera. I think lenses, tripods, mounts, and lighting gear are all good investments since they generally don't get obsoleted and can last for years and years and years, given reasonable care. Chances are, there are Red users in your area that would be willing to rent you a camera head only or a package at a reasonable price.

I agree with Alberto above that it's possible to get great pictures out of Epic Dragon assuming good exposures and good lighting. I'm a fan of the idea of shooting at 5K and then extracting a cropped 4K image so you have the room for repositioning in post, but I concede it's a creative choice.