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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Curious. You fellas think Red Raven will be ready to ship before NAB 2016 or after?
 
It's a RAW camera, which means professional at amateur prices. Don't be fooled by the price. Just because it's price point is in low end Sony and BM territory it can go out on high end jobs and perform. But you better make sure you have dependable cards and data workflow to not **** up which is why media is expensive. Those costs are irrelevant on a professional shoot. If this is a concern then get a 60D and invest in good glass and work your way up on decent paying web jobs. Then you will realize the value of the components.

I haven't seen an internal RAW camera under 10K on a professional shoot, (and I'm not talking about those hipster coming of age bs narratives), but now you will.
 
Michael Jarvis said:
I can tell you one thing...when I am on a high end shoot..and months of pre-pro have gone into it...and you are 10 hours in and the budget clock has been ticking all day...

...you have your entire reputation sitting on those cards. I sure as hell don't mind paying a premium knowing they will deliver every time.

You could argue that "so do Cfast...compact flash....ect"...but those don't handle what RED it capable of.
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In that scenario you'd be right; but in that scenario, I'd expect there to be a rented Epic/F55/Alexa and a maybe a backup body on-hand for that level of shoot.

Performance-wise the CFast cards are actually faster than the lower capacity mini-mags. If mini-mags don't offer better reliability, I'm not sure why they're necessary.

Look, I'm not saying definitively that they are NOT necessary. I'm just saying that the customers buying this camera will ask this question when they see the price tag and I'm curious about Red's answer.
 
Steven Hilder said:
You won't be able to shoot anything at a resolution higher than 4K, regardless of media data rates and internal processing horsepower, simply because it's a 4K sensor.

Dragon's pixel pitch is 0.005mm - multiply that by 4096 and you get 20.48mm which is the width of the sensor as confirmed by Jarred.
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My question was stupid, i already knew what you are saying, i was just trying to convince myself that this 1.87 crop factor can't be the final crop factor, that Red will offer us a more cinematic one, but i think i'm wrong..
Too bad, i think i'll stay with my Red one Mx..
 
Well I think you have to look at it as a whole, if the body was more expensive but the media cheaper wouldn't it even out? Just depends on how you look at it
 
Fahnon Bennett said:
In that scenario you'd be right; but in that scenario, I'd expect there to be a rented Epic/F55/Alexa and a maybe a backup body on-hand for that level of shoot.

Performance-wise the CFast cards are actually faster than the lower capacity mini-mags. If mini-mags don't offer better reliability, I'm not sure why they're necessary.

Look, I'm not saying definitively that they are NOT necessary. I'm just saying that the customers buying this camera will ask this question when they see the price tag and I'm curious about Red's answer.
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Yes there are usually backup cameras...but we are not talking about camera failures...we are talking about media failures. I have never lost a shot on a REDmag
 
Jae Solina said:
Curious. You fellas think Red Raven will be ready to ship before NAB 2016 or after?
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I ordered my first Scarlet the night it was announced, and picked it up (#203) the second week of December. RED has made pretty big strides since then with manufacturing and delivery times; I'd expect the first of these out the door by November 1st.
 
Fahnon Bennett said:
In that scenario you'd be right; but in that scenario, I'd expect there to be a rented Epic/F55/Alexa and a maybe a backup body on-hand for that level of shoot.

Performance-wise the CFast cards are actually faster than the lower capacity mini-mags. If mini-mags don't offer better reliability, I'm not sure why they're necessary.

Look, I'm not saying definitively that they are NOT necessary. I'm just saying that the customers buying this camera will ask this question when they see the price tag and I'm curious about Red's answer.
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Well you sort of are saying that. Everyone has given a reasoning behind it. There is a level of price/reliability Red are not willing to go below. I don't think this is a no-budget web shooter camera, irrespective of the entry price. It is a higher end raw digital cinema camera. You need to stop comparing apples to oranges, especially when it comes to putting this camera up against the cameras in its price range. It's the cameras in the range a tier or two above that are its competition.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
My question was stupid, i already knew what you are saying, i was just trying to convince myself that this 1.87 crop factor can't be the final crop factor, that Red will offer us a more cinematic one, but i think i'm wrong..
Too bad, i think i'll stay with my Red one Mx..
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Why is the crop factor being talked about as if it is unable to provide a cinematic experience?

Five years ago I shot my first short film using an APS-C sensor. The lens choice, lighting, blocking, acting, script, and a million other factors played a significantly larger role in the look of my film over the sensor size. Cinematic or not.

The indie world is ready to accept a cropped sensor Pro Camera like the Raven..spitting out redcode no less! I know for fact the pixel count of my sensor would not have made my first script any better.

I know we love talking specs especially at a time like this but we should look at what we really have in our hands, thanks in large part to Red.

Can we please collectively start changing the perception in this forum of what makes a Cinematic image?
 
Regarding criticism of RED's pricing strategy...


Cost is only an issue in the absence of value.

RED Digital Cinema makes top tier products. Nothing less.

When Amira launched C Fast cards were $1,200/120GB and everyone was complaining the cards were way too expensive compared to the $6,000 URSA? Those SanDisk cards that were engineered for Amira wouldn't mount in URSA and the early adopters were furious their $1,200 120GB cards were useless.

Regardless of what this camera costs built up, it will be the best value RED has ever offered----and keep in mind they once sold BT'd RED Ones for $4K.

For the professionals willing to make the investment, it's an opportunity they can't wait to jump on. For those who haven't been able to see the value, it still won't be enough...

When you're used to being low budget you're always looking for a more affordable option. Of course everyone wants more for less.

Why do URSA users need C Fast when a CF card can handle 1080p 23.976 ProRes 422?

Why do Denecke slates cost $1,200+ when you can just clap your hands?

Why should I pay my friend with a Lectro kit and 633 when I have on camera mics?

Why use lights when we have the sun?

There will always be lower cost alternatives. RED is not engaging in the race to the bottom. They're already the most affordable cinema camera company. Weapon Dragon. DSMC Dragon. Raven. All part of the same family. All aimed at different market segments. All quality.



So, "why do memory cards cost $1,000?"

The price of failure is higher.
 
165 pages of comments, who are "we" here? why are we interested in this new Raven and for what purpose? Are you thinking about it as a B cam or an A cam ?

Let me start :

I'm a Red one Mx owner and i shoot shorts and unofficial commercials to integrate a reputed director agency,

the Raven has my attention because of :

-its size

-its dragon sensor

-the fact that i'm confortable with R3D

BUT, i don't see myself trading a S35 sensor size (Red one Mx) for a M43 one.. Maybe as a B cam? But it will happen later than if it was a S35 sensor so, who are people interested in this cam, and do you see yourself trading your S35 sensor (Scarlet/Epic/Mx/Dragon) for a sensor that has a 1.87 crop factor?
 
Michael Jarvis said:
I can tell you one thing...when I am on a high end shoot..and months of pre-pro have gone into it...and you are 10 hours in and the budget clock has been ticking all day...

...you have your entire reputation sitting on those cards. I sure as hell don't mind paying a premium knowing they will deliver every time.

You could argue that "so do Cfast...compact flash....ect"...but those don't handle what RED it capable of.
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This x1000. Exactly my belief.
 
Glen Powell said:
Depends how you interpret that - #4K4ALL working (as in full time job working) DP's & Cameramen. Or #4K4ALL hobbyist, weekend warrior, cameramen?

Different groups.
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I don't think there are only those two groups who would be interested in this announcement. In fact, I'd say the first group is probably affluent enough that they aren't the ones driving camera prices down (and maybe don't like that prices are dropping).

I mean think of all the career-young indie-types who are buying the A7s or GH4 or Blackmagic. Huge amount of filmmakers out there who rent Red and would like to own as well, but wouldn't spend $15k on a camera package. I'd taken them as part of the "all" statement, but maybe Red wasn't thinking of them?
 
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