#4K4ALL

[Ryan Farnes]

I'm intrigued.

 

[Curtis Woodbury]

...4all can't be $10K, not even a half... Only $3,999 can fit the category. $2,999 would shake the competition. $1,999 would enter in the consumer segment, even though, GH4 is used by lots of PROfessionals out there in the real world from corporate/events to wedding videoraphy, without mention of SERIOUS narrative work such as this example here shot on GH2 (among many others going on the DSLR/Mirrorless revolution):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstream_Color

box office reached 10x the initial budget:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=upstreamcolor.htm

If RED wants to make Raven a redvolution, this is perfectly at the range

I like your mentality, I am hoping for a REDvolution and not just some 10-20k camera that others are claiming it will be.

 

[Trevor Meier]

I know Red has lots going for it besides Redcode but I can say confidently that, for me, it is basically the only reason that I want a Red.

Exactly x2

 

[Bob Gundu]

Long live Redcode!

 

[Adam Rook]

If the Raven only shoots ProRes, I'd probably pass. I know Red has lots going for it besides Redcode but I can say confidently that, for me, it is basically the only reason that I want a Red.

+1 for me too.
That and Dragon's dynamic range.

 

[Elsie N]

I don't own a Red (yet) but, for me, the main reason I'm so eager to join the club is Redcode. If the Raven only shoots ProRes, I'd probably pass. I know Red has lots going for it besides Redcode but I can say confidently that, for me, it is basically the only reason that I want a Red.

Hard for me to imagine they would choose only Pro Res over only Redcode. They own the license for one and have to pay for the other. I do see the possibility of providing both (Pro res at lower settings) but not outputting both at the same time as they do on (other) Weapons.

 

[Christopher Kim]

Hard for me to imagine they would choose only Pro Res over only Redcode. They own the license for one and have to pay for the other. I do see the possibility of providing both (Pro res at lower settings) but not outputting both at the same time as they do on (other) Weapons.

I certainly hope so. This makes a lot of sense to me but it seems there are several people who are speculating that it'll be ProRes only. We'll see! I certainly hope they go with Redcode. Can't speak for anyone else but it's the main draw for me. If it's ProRes only why would I choose a Red over, say, an URSA Mini? Why buy into an ecosystem that has really expensive proprietary media and accessories when I can go with a more affordable alternative that gives me nearly equal results? I mean, I know the arguments. Red's more established, more proven, etc. But that's not enough for someone in my position and as BMD slowly gets their act together, that argument becomes less potent.

The thing that makes me look at used Reds every day even though it's well outside of my budget, the thing that makes it such an aspirational product, is that I really, really want to shoot Redcode. Not just raw but specifically Redcode. If all I wanted was any old raw format, I can go with a BMD camera or a Magic Lanterned 5D3. No, I want Redcode because it's so flexible in its ability to be compressed while still maintaining a high standard of IQ. So if they made a camera that's ready to shoot at around $10K that uses the Redcode we all love? That's hard to ignore. That makes me want to do something stupid like max out all my credit cards to buy it.

 

[Elsie N]

I certainly hope so. This makes a lot of sense to me but it seems there are several people who are speculating that it'll be ProRes only. We'll see! I certainly hope they go with Redcode. Can't speak for anyone else but it's the main draw for me. If it's ProRes only why would I choose a Red over, say, an URSA Mini? Why buy into an ecosystem that has really expensive proprietary media and accessories when I can go with a more affordable alternative that gives me nearly equal results? I mean, I know the arguments. Red's more established, more proven, etc. But that's not enough for someone in my position and as BMD slowly gets their act together, that argument becomes less potent.

The thing that makes me look at used Reds every day even though it's well outside of my budget, the thing that makes it such an aspirational product, is that I really, really want to shoot Redcode. Not just raw but specifically Redcode. If all I wanted was any old raw format, I can go with a BMD camera or a Magic Lanterned 5D3. No, I want Redcode because it's so flexible in its ability to be compressed while still maintaining a high standard of IQ. So if they made a camera that's ready to shoot at around $10K that uses the Redcode we all love? That's hard to ignore. That makes me want to do something stupid like max out all my credit cards to buy it.

Or get a new card or two at 0 percent interest for like 18 months, except for the upfront (usually) 3 percent charge. Just don't pay the minimum each month and be faced with a balloon pmt at the end. I break the total into 18 equal monthly pmts. It's worked for me. '-)

 

[Christopher Kim]

Or get a new card or two at 0 percent interest for like 18 months, except for the upfront (usually) 3 percent charge. Just don't pay the minimum each month and be faced with a balloon pmt at the end. I break the total into 18 equal monthly pmts. It's worked for me. '-)

Good advice! I was (mostly) joking but I appreciate the tip!

 

[Antony Newman]

Random thoughts:

+) What about a 5.5k x 5.5k Dragon sensor.
+) With a high speed 'Apple M9 like' motion sensor to measure Z-rotation
+) From which a UHD square image @ Z_Angle is requested and extracted in Hardware.
-> This would mean that a drone / Steadicam would require ONE less axis to stabilise.

+) Max power rate = probably Max Sensor raster rate & Processed Pixel related.
-> Up to UHD res / 19.4 Megapixel X 120 / 100 fps = 8.3/19.4*1.2 = ~ 50% of the ASIC power (wattage)

+) I would guess as heatsink that is Half the size of the one in the weapon could be used in the Raven (and that this would give substantial weight savings, and perhaps the need of only one fan.
-> Guessing 2.5 lb Magnesium body

+) I know that a minimag is included - but am hoping that a beamforming tech (or other) has been incorporated to send a wireless video signal...

AJ

 

[Phil Holland]

Over 100,000 views and 100 pages of posts.

A couple thoughts. I am pretty sure if it's a RED camera it's going to include REDCODE RAW capability. Also, for those with some of the crazier drone and drone exclusive concepts. Since this is indeed in the newer DSMC body style the JETPACK Expander does exist, which fits into this modern body ecosystem. I also think this won't be some niche camera that is only suitable for aerial filming. Raven will likely be for all types of filming like all other RED cameras.

 

[Corey_O]

One question Phil.

Do you believe there's a chance Raven becomes best selling camera in Red's arsenal?

 

[Emanuel A.]

I'm a big fan of the GH4. I had a GH2. Love love love them! But just because you can get a compressed video codec of AVCHD 4K something from a mass produced DSLR doesn't mean that RED is going to sell a 4K weapon that does REDcode for anywhere near that based on the notion that 4K4all means that now it has to compete with those cameras.

There's different kinds of 4K in the world

Of course, there are different types of 4K. In the case of the "consumer" (why the hell they invented YAGH and didn't launch AF200?) $1,499 GH4 (who mentioned the GH4, BTW? You means external recording going with 10-bit 4:2:2 in a professional codec/higher bitrate binomial add-on available for $1,199.

4K4all only makes sense within a certain price range. If not, it would be a 'business gimmick' more likely to be condemned to fail as mere empty cunning marketing ploy or to be understood as the ultimate joke. BTW Part II, there are reduser and a whole world outside where RED is not the most loved camera company out there...

4K4all shall only be ruled by a simple rule, I guess: Supply and Demand. Where other camera brands (some big names and without proprietary media but really affordable, most part of them) and respective price list will surely show their teeth.

Thinking otherwise is naive. Reality rules over there.

 

[Elsie N]

Good advice! I was (mostly) joking but I appreciate the tip!

Heh, heh... I used to joke about that too, until I wasn't. Just set up autopay and forget it. Almost like the Fed giving banks money at zero so they can buy back bonds with a yield. And now there's talk about going to negative interest if we get into trouble again. I understand they are already doing this in Europe right now.

Oh well, Japan has been deflationary and they didn't implode. Probably just where we are in some sort of millennia cycle.

 

[Phil Holland]

One question Phil.

Do you believe there's a chance Raven becomes best selling camera in Red's arsenal?

If my hunch is correct, likely, but it truly depends on what exactly Raven is and what exactly Raven's price is as well. There are an incredible amount of Epic and Scarlet bodies out there, so it will likely take a while to overtake the "OG" DSMC. Not to mention there's a whole lot of RED Ones that sold over the years. The market progressively gets larger with each lower priced market segment. Weapon is brand spanking new and indeed targeted towards higher end shooters and productions (or whoever else demands that level of quality) in terms of it's feature set. Raven could do it for sure. Just depends.

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Plot twist, it's actually not aerial focused at all, and the reason they called it "Raven" was because we're desperately scrounging & feeding on rumors, like ravens. :wink5:

 

[Glen Powell]

Ravens are very intelligent...

 

[Emanuel A.]

One question Phil.

Do you believe there's a chance Raven becomes best selling camera in Red's arsenal?

Do you still have doubts? I hope, your question may not make much sense if you follow what I try to mean here ;-)

 

[Alexander Thomson]

Ravens are very intelligent...

And hungry.

 

[M.Halsell]

Adding more confusion to the house of cards:

1) The product line gets unified based on the Weapon modularity
2) The Scarlet and Epic lines fall back and get replaced by Raven
3) Dragon sensor becomes exclusively available on the Weapon only
4) Raven sensor will be aggregated from the practical yield of the current run, producing same color, sensitivity and FOV of the s35 sensor.
5) 4 or 4.5K will be the maximum acquisition for most practical applications. Possibly 6k for stills
6) No fixed lens mount
7) Red Code. Absolutely. Prores, not sure
8) Geolocation services
9) Price $12k - $15K (special early bird pricing)