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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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can't wait to know more...its been a struggle for me on what to do next, alexa mini, SXT, when will i need to ante up the rest on my weapon deposit? i almost want to buy more unupgradable cameras from competitors at this point lol, not cuz i don't love red, but just cuz i want something of quality that i can justify using for personal projects... can't wait for arri to release a new sensor and kill my amira rentals so i can just shoot on that sucker? or maybe buy an old red, thats something that struck me in this thread. the accessories for DSMC 1 will be cheap, cuz guys like me will have no need if i get weapon/8k and all that for any of my 8 mags, my side 1.8 modules, readers, hell screen it seems, lots of crap seems to be useless to me now in general and yes i can trade in some of the mags but ill have so many other accessories it seems left that i may as well get another Dragon or MX i figure. i think if anything its a great time to consider a used red cuz all these parts will be dirt cheap on the used market, and if red can liquidate the used traded in cameras, even better....at least the scarlet MXs, those could be offloaded for cheap without effecting the high end at all, and hopefully epics too one day? or like i always said, donate all the traded cameras to schools across the country and make a legion of red shooters in one foul swoop under the guise of philanthropy? even better than doing it with just extreme sports, or arri and football? in either case it increases user base to get rid of the old stuff.. whether its cheap or free it don't matter. i bet red could easily put a used scarlet or two at every state school in the country instead of scraping it for pennies on the dollar?

i don't know what to do personally, i struggled to come up with the money for an arri and the red deposit this year, i'll wait and figure it out. its too hard to get all the stuff you want in this industry, at least for me currently cuz i want all the friggin arris and reds...but scarcity and limitation coupled with so much stuff coming out from both companies at once just makes it tough to end up with every model. i like that i can upgrade the red, it can always be the best model then it seems? but i also like that one day the arris get to retire, and even if they have some netflix approved non uprez solution an old arri could be fun. back in the days of film people didn't buy a new camera every year, or several a year. they cost a lot more, like flex 4k prices. digital is strange, but i don't want to race to the bottom and i like the cheap cameras but i don't see how i can monetize them when they are mass produced commodities that any college intern will shoot on for pizza and IMDB credit lol? so I'm chasing the high end but reds tough with the price cuts, then super expensive upgrades, and whatnot, you never know what will happen but i still would like to keep one camera as the top red...as for FF vs S35 thats a tough question for me. Raven looks cool, maybe enough to get my thoughts of a used red out of my head despite all my accessories? to be honest i don't even know much about the trade in program, but i do like that its going to take me a while to hopefully get my weapon cuz i need the ROI on dragon still lol? these upgrades are so fast compared to film days its really tough to stay bleeding edge and make your ROI i think in general. I've used lowered ended cameras but i really like my red and arri and i want to stick with those, my phantoms cool too but i need a newer one resolution wise...
 
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Look at the screen. Do my eyes deceive me or is that a WiFi indicator at the bottom??
 
It would appear that based on Jarred's most recent tease that RAVEN:

- Is at least 4K resolution
- Can shoot 4K resolution up to 120fps
- Has WiFi capabilities

Interesting stuff. Also to note, that is a fully functioning camera in the previous teaser images.
 
Ok so this is a game changer! We are talking about higher end again! It won't be lower than 9500.--$ !
Now hoping it's able to shoot 6@ 25p.
HD Prores is not out of reach...

Pat
 
So 4K4ALL could mean the Raven is an upgrade to the Scarlet Dragon and that we'll see a significant price cut on the Scarlet-X? Maybe we'll see it drop to $4k?
 
Bob Gundu said:
I bet the side SSD is included. and you don't have to use the XL module.
Click to expand...

I'm betting we'll see RED introduce a "ready to shoot" package as well as body only options, similar to what's been done in the past, however with a BIG emphasis on RAVEN. 4.7" Touch LCD, 2X 120GB MINI-MAGs, likely the REDVOLT XL Module, 2X REDVOLT XLs, Quad Charger, AC Adapter, good to go.

That makes a lot of sense to me actually to make it digestable and usable straight away for entry level shooters.

Also, guys, it's going to shoot REDCODE RAW. You'd be crazy to think RED would make a camera in it's ecosystem that didn't. ProRes support is still unknown, but....... I have a theory now that all the pieces are becoming more visible.
 
If Raven can do 120fps, then most likely has horsepower to do 6k. This camera is potentially in between Scarlet and Epic, in Weapon form, and may cost $15k for a brain.

The cost will be loss of modularity and no prores. Ie fixed mount, maybe fixed olpf (hopefully not!), and fixed ports/side panels (ie may not be able to switch side panels as full Weapon can do).

This would explain why Mark Pederson would mention hes creating an OMOD with audio for Raven Doc/ENG shooters, as Raven itself may not have XLR side panel, like Weapon.

So what were potentially seeing is top of the line to mid market specs (ie 120fps at 4k!), but more entry level body with less choices/modularity.

Sounds like a fair trade off!
 
Yeah, I've actually just ignored the people suggesting no REDcode...

In today's pic, Jarred blacked out the colour/gamma indicator, so it could possibly be MX in a Weapon body!? 120fps at 4k seems decent though!

I still don't see how reducing modularity actually costs substantially less to produce... Like from a materials or even "complexity" perspective. Especially presuming it is "weapon body" compatible.
 
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Phil Holland said:
That makes a lot of sense to me actually to make it digestable and usable straight away for entry level shooters.
Click to expand...

Not sure how this makes any more sense other than saving a few 'add to shopping cart' clicks. Unless of course they offer package discounts.
 
Phil Holland said:
REDVOLT XL Module, 2X REDVOLT XLs, Quad Charger
Click to expand...

V-mount plate would be a much more logical and convenient decision. But it'll be like you say, 99% sure. All that redvolts gathering dust...
 
Mike P. said:
Yeah, I've actually just ignore the people suggesting no REDcode...
Click to expand...

But you have to put it in context. I've suggested ProRes a couple of times. But that is based on a Ready To Shoot camera (brain, monitor, battery, ssd module) around $7-8000 for the original interpretation of 4K4ALL meaning all 'users'—i.e. a new camera for people that found the Scarlet too steep of an investment.

I've yet to see a compelling argument how RED could sell a package that I outline above for that price if it checks all the boxes for high end cinema (where you don't need high fps). That's basically saying Scarlet Dragon collection, or better, for $8000—currently sitting at $21000.

If you want to throw the #newprice overboard, let's just start the thread over, because then it's useless! =) An upgraded Scarlet at around the same price doesn't change anything—except possibly causing more tension within existing RED owners (Epic/Weapon vs Scarlet/Raven).
 
Or it could mean Scarlet-X drops to $2k for the brain, and that's the "new" entry-level "4k4all" camera... Which is what I said this time last year (that Scarlet-Xs and Epic-Xs will drop like flies... I'd pick up at BT Epic-x, with mount and SSD module, for $4k).
 
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The compelling argument is that they are Red and their core workflow is Redcode 4k raw and that tech is well established and they don't have to pay extra for a Pro Res licence. It's the one thing you can be sure if, that the camera will be shooting redcode.

Forget the bloody 4k4ALL as meaning something cryptic and legally binding and stop trying to interpret it as meaning whatever you want/demand it to mean. It's just a nice snappy slogan.
 
I personally dont think this camera will be in the URSA price range.

My guess is its targeting C300 MKII. $15k brain.

4K4ALL maybe a relative term - its more likely 4K4ALL within the RED ecosystem, not for the general shooting world. Its looking like the INDIE RED. But that doesnt mean its going to compete with A7 or Ursa, by all accounts thats another market alltogether...
 
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