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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K Televisions

In case people have missed it, CES is under way and the 4K TV's are *EVERYWHERE*

I know RED is doing their big REDRAY / ODEMAX announcement thing with Sundance, but they really should have a presence at CES this year. People are scrambling around trying to figure out where they're going to get their 4K/UHD content. Or at least this is what I'm told by my ninja spies on the show floor. Sony is all but mum on the 4K Blu-Ray front and there's strong indicators that it may just not happen. In other words they see the writing on the wall and realize IP distribution is the future...

Planar, Vizio, Toshiba and possibly Sharp all have 4K UHD TV's shipping in the USA this summer for under $4K. One of the most pleasant surprises so far is the 70" VIZIO UHD. No official price yet, but two of my peeps were told by reps that they can buy 4 of these for the price of the Sony 84". In other words, should be around $6K MSRP for a 70" 4K LED panel. Looks like i might have just found the replacement for my 71" DLP that's on its way out... hopefully it can hang on a few more months until I can get one of these. ;)

...Anyway, I'll be ready for the RED projector before then. I've got the walls up and the wires run in the new screening/ coloring room. Just waiting for the projector and screen details before I finish it out.
 
Sony is all but mum on the 4K Blu-Ray front and there's strong indicators that it may just not happen.
Click to expand...

Other than a working group to discuss emerging technologies, like HFR and 4k, nothing has been done at all. I mean zero, zilch, nada. This is according to Andy Parsons (BDA). He gave a talk to a bunch of us in October in Burbank. He also did a round table with Ned Price and Jeffrey Baker. Here is the one question on 4k. (August 2012)

Q: How does 4k play a role in this effort and how will it fit on an expected 4k Blu-ray?
Andy Parsons: We think that Blu-ray would be suitable for 4K content because of its high capacity and data throughput (particularly in comparison to streaming), and the BDA continues to explore new technologies, though at this time, no 4K development activities are taking place within the BDA.

I know Toshiba went to one studio asking for something to demo at CES. This particular studio has nothing ready in 4k. They don't own the rights for what little 4k footage they do have. Its not a small studio.
 
Stacey Spears said:
Other than a working group to discuss emerging technologies, like HFR and 4k, nothing has been done at all. I mean zero, zilch, nada. This is according to Andy Parsons (BDA). He gave a talk to a bunch of us in October in Burbank. He also did a round table with Ned Price and Jeffrey Baker. Here is the one question on 4k. (August 2012)
Click to expand...

And yet Sony demoed 4K (UHD/ QFHD) playing from a prototype Blu-Ray system nearly 2 years ago -- saw it with my own eyes. They demoed 4K stills output with PS3 hardware at CES last year. This year, they are showing 4K/UHD playback from the HDD player unit add-on for their 84" 4K UHDTV. And they don't seem to have any clear cut answers about pricing and availability for content on that. Looks like a couple Sony titles come loaded on the device when you buy it.

Oh, well... Just like with HD, displays first, content later. It seems most studios are going to have to revisit their film masters again and go through a whole new remastering process again, just as they did for HD/2K/1080p. At least with 4K we're pushing the limits of what film is going to have to offer. I know some studios have already started on this and are actively doing it, as Jim and Jarred like to hint at.

BDA may come up with something, but I'm sure it will end up being H.265 based 8-bit crap... Yeah, I'm an optimist.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
In case people have missed it, CES is under way and the 4K TV's are *EVERYWHERE*
Click to expand...

I'm following it. The prices seem to be varying wildly for incoming panels. Seems like just a hair below $4k-$6k seems to be target for modest sized panels. Some of the larger ones, 90 inches, are still over $30k. I'm eyeballing 46"-60" for my own uses. My 46" Samsung 1080p panel I use for color and local dailies cost about $4k when I picked it up. It's going to get a new home this year.

Also, this looks neato for studio/desktop use maybe.
http://gizmodo.com/5963847/sharps-32+inch-4k-igzo-display-is-more-exciting-than-a-monitor-should-be
 
4 years ago with our work RED MX I thought we would never see it happen.

Now that I'm an official RED owner...exciting times ;)
 
Stacey Spears said:
Other than a working group to discuss emerging technologies, like HFR and 4k, nothing has been done at all. I mean zero, zilch, nada. This is according to Andy Parsons (BDA). He gave a talk to a bunch of us in October in Burbank. He also did a round table with Ned Price and Jeffrey Baker. Here is the one question on 4k. (August 2012)

Q: How does 4k play a role in this effort and how will it fit on an expected 4k Blu-ray?
Andy Parsons: We think that Blu-ray would be suitable for 4K content because of its high capacity and data throughput (particularly in comparison to streaming), and the BDA continues to explore new technologies, though at this time, no 4K development activities are taking place within the BDA.

I know Toshiba went to one studio asking for something to demo at CES. This particular studio has nothing ready in 4k. They don't own the rights for what little 4k footage they do have. Its not a small studio.
Click to expand...

They are trying streaming, but also due to the low density of 4k h264 on disc they have waited, and the talk was about violet ray in the future. So, until we get H265 or violet ray, I don't expect much on bluray. I suspect once they get everything ready, they will come to bluray standard or violet ray, and say here is a solution, and then they will decide if to adopt it.
 
It is very likely that the "lame stream media," as you refer to it, is much more in touch with about 90% of the population than anyone on RedUser is (including me). One ignores the opinions of actual consumers - the people who have to buy this stuff in order for it to have any real meaning - at their own peril.
 
PS3 was a big part of early Bluray HD adoption - PS4 will be 4K ready for sure and I'm betting H.265 will become the 4K distribution format of choice.

Just remember what we all paid for the first batch of full HD 1080p TV's and look at how quickly costs dropped - 4K will go the same way but I suspect much more quickly!

Scott
 
Samir Patel said:
What I want to know is what the price of this is going to be:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/10/tcl-ces-2013-movo-google-tv-110-inch-uhd-4k-iron-man/
Click to expand...

But it's not "the largest". Samsung also makes a 110" 4K display, also at CES. Panasonic has updated their ginormous line, which includes the already widely known 105" 4K plasma, to now include a 115" 4K LED LCD. So, :P The Panny models are not really for sale though normal consumer channels. Seems they're still taking the traveling roadshow and special venue approach with their largest displays, high end dealers and going for the big "wow factor". That whole wow thing is fading though with all these other display makers shipping 84" to 110" to Joe Consumer now. They do sell the 85-inchers and they've had an 85" 4K plasma model available for over a year now. It was $68K on release, don't know current pricing. Their 85" 1080p plasma is under $9K, or MSRP about $600 less than the 90" Sharp Quattron.

The 110" Samsung is being touted as the most beautiful of all the 4K displays at CES. The people at the show relaying info back to me seem to agree with that assessment. Samsung says it will ship later this year, but limited quantities and no official price yet. They start getting these 100" and larger 4K LCD's down below $10K, which will happen, people are going to stop messing with projectors in their homes. Those who really want the projected look will still go that route and systems like the REDRAY projector should have much superior color gamut and other qualities since the player is built into the projector, so that will be attractive until the rest of the displays and interfaces catch up... Or until RED starts building REDRAY players into TV's or licenses them to be built into other TV's and projectors... That would be a smart move, IMO.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
That whole wow thing is fading though with all these other display makers shipping 84" to 110" to Joe Consumer now.
Click to expand...

Joe Consumer doesn't have a house with a room large enough to use a monitor of that size, let alone the money to pay for it. Perhaps Joseph Consumer the Third does, but your average person does not. I would offer the opinion that most people who fit into the category of Joe Consumer are much more enamored with their iPad than they are with the idea of taking a room in their apartment or modest house and turning it over to a giant TV screen.
 
Jeff

CES is WAY under-informed...

Saw this article on Mashable --- http://mashable.com/2013/01/11/sony-coo-4k-content/

So we ran a little experiment in the offices today....

Posted this in the reply....

Red Camera Company already has a 4K player...content will be streamed through an existing network. BTW there is a ton of 4K content that has already been shot...Many major motion picture films are shot on Red in 4K. Their website has a list of "shot on Red" -- pretty impressive

http://www.red.com/store/products/r...m=homepage&eBslide&utm_campaign=REDRAY_Launch

Do you know that that simple comment has now been DELETED 3 times...!!!? (edit: make that 4 times now)

We're going to keep playing with it through the day...pretty funny actually, I'll see if we can't break 2 dozen deletes....Don't know who the mod is but they are definitely appearing pro-Sony at this point...



Jeff Kilgroe said:
In case people have missed it, CES is under way and the 4K TV's are *EVERYWHERE*

I know RED is doing their big REDRAY / ODEMAX announcement thing with Sundance, but they really should have a presence at CES this year. People are scrambling around trying to figure out where they're going to get their 4K/UHD content. Or at least this is what I'm told by my ninja spies on the show floor. Sony is all but mum on the 4K Blu-Ray front and there's strong indicators that it may just not happen. In other words they see the writing on the wall and realize IP distribution is the future...

Planar, Vizio, Toshiba and possibly Sharp all have 4K UHD TV's shipping in the USA this summer for under $4K. One of the most pleasant surprises so far is the 70" VIZIO UHD. No official price yet, but two of my peeps were told by reps that they can buy 4 of these for the price of the Sony 84". In other words, should be around $6K MSRP for a 70" 4K LED panel. Looks like i might have just found the replacement for my 71" DLP that's on its way out... hopefully it can hang on a few more months until I can get one of these. ;)

...Anyway, I'll be ready for the RED projector before then. I've got the walls up and the wires run in the new screening/ coloring room. Just waiting for the projector and screen details before I finish it out.
Click to expand...
 
M Most said:
Joe Consumer doesn't have a house with a room large enough to use a monitor of that size, let alone the money to pay for it. Perhaps Joseph Consumer the Third does, but your average person does not. I would offer the opinion that most people who fit into the category of Joe Consumer are much more enamored with their iPad than they are with the idea of taking a room in their apartment or modest house and turning it over to a giant TV screen.
Click to expand...

M

Found this chart fairly interesting....

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

Part of this author's analysis

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
In case people have missed it, CES is under way and the 4K TV's are *EVERYWHERE* ... One of the most pleasant surprises so far is the 70" VIZIO UHD. No official price yet, but two of my peeps were told by reps that they can buy 4 of these for the price of the Sony 84". In other words, should be around $6K MSRP for a 70" 4K LED panel. Looks like i might have just found the replacement for my 71" DLP that's on its way out...
Click to expand...

If that is the case ... look for it in your local Costco soon!

Tom Greenberg said:
Yesterday at CES, Westinghouse announced a line 4K TVs starting at $2499...seems like the move to affordable consumer 4K will obviously be happening MUCH faster than the move to affordable 1080p. Hopefully the rest of the distribution pipeline will be ready as quickly!
Click to expand...

The Westinghouse consumer electronics brand name is owned by Toshiba I believe. Those prices are just slightly more than the mainland Chinese prices for similar sized 4K panels that we were discussing several weeks ago. Definitely a good sign.

__________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8
 
I saw at CES

I saw at CES

I just got back from CES.
4K TV looks amazing, no more doubts it works on TV sets. Even the smaller sets looked stunning.

Hisense ( China ) is the company to watch drive the prices down. BTW , they had a 120" set on display.
The 50" UHD will be around $2000.
The 84" will be available for preorder in 6 mo. , no price yet.

The UHD demo material running on the Hisense units was over enhanced , looking almost like the 'focus' mode on the RED Lcd .
I'm sure it was a typical Chinese company blunder.

The REDRAY running at the Toshiba booth looked OK. Some of the material looked a bit soft however, and there was a horizontal motion judder that was apparent in a few shots.
The LG booth had an 84" set running UHD at 60P . The best I saw.
 
M Most said:
Joe Consumer doesn't have a house with a room large enough to use a monitor of that size, let alone the money to pay for it. Perhaps Joseph Consumer the Third does, but your average person does not. I would offer the opinion that most people who fit into the category of Joe Consumer are much more enamored with their iPad than they are with the idea of taking a room in their apartment or modest house and turning it over to a giant TV screen.
Click to expand...

That wasn't quite my point. I was just saying that anyone could buy them, if they chose to do so -- that hasn't always been the case with these large screens, like the Panny 105" 4K, whether someone had a big enough bank account or not. And you're right that most people don't have the means in terms of space or finances to purchase a screen that size. However, 80" screens are outselling 70" screens, according to Sharp. There's an interesting tidbit for you. But I think that speaks to reason most who have the room for and the desire to own a 70"+ screen can probably fit an 80" screen. And price-wise there isn't much difference at that point -- less than $1K different between 70 and 80 inches for the Quattron. The 80" Sharp Quattron has an MSRP $2500 cheaper than the Samsung 75" LED and the street prices match up about the same way. And the Sharp 80" is available at Best Buy and Sears, at least it is around here. I bet they sell a lot more of those than Samsung sells of the 75" ones.
 
I tell you this much, the 80-inch Sharp with full-array LED backlighting is a sight to behold!
 
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