4K REDCODE™ RAW + Final Cut Studio 2 red.com announcement

[Chris Gearhart]

I heard the phrase, "REDCODE has . . . embedded QT 1K and 2K proxies," at NAB. Now, I certainly may have that screwed up somehow. Please correct, elaborate, anyone.

Just contributing my ignorance, here, but Redcode is wavelet based--of the same stripe as map/satelite imaging technology. So, if you go to google maps, for instance, then hit satelite image, then zoom in, it will automatically re-resolve the image for that level of detail. (You can usually see a delay where your house looks pixelated for a moment after zooming).

So, unless there is some automatic step/increment value-limit in the code, the scale should be, well, scalable. I assume most times you will choose industry standard scales, but theoretically you can just dial in the detail and get almost instantaneous re-resolving.

The QT stuff, and someone correct me, is more for re-coding to another codec, no?

 

[Cail Young]

*whew* I got it right! Now will it base the proxy scale upon the beefiness of one's machine? 1K, 2K?

From what I've seen elsewhere, the camera generates QT reference movies with preset proxy settings for you - you open one of those and it performs the partial debayer at the specified size.

 

[P Andersson]

looking at 1K rushes on a laptop, do you zoom in to show the full 4K resolution when the time line is stopped
or is it a simple right click or something that pulls up that frame at full res to view detail in another viewer window

 

[Simon Blackledge]

suspect you need to re-connect ya media to show full 4k..

mind.. it would be great to have a proxy/dynamic setting for recode in fcp.. plays at 1k but on stop shows another you select 2k or 4k etc..

 

[Brook Willard]

...that pulls up that frame at full res to view detail in another viewer window

Something like this isn't useful at this point... because no monitor can display the full resolution.

Unless you're just talking about zooming in, but that's a Graeme question.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I don't have an answer on that for you yet.

Graeme

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I don't have an answer on that for you yet.

Graeme

crazy idea:

you could do a seperate utility (let's call it CHECK 4K FRAME) - specifically designed for viewing an individual frame(s) and PORTIONS of frame(s) on set - in full res - based on limitations of monitor you have - this way you could side-step building more goodies into the QT component -

You would use QT to scrub or play the 1K extraction (which is referencing the 4K RAW media) - when you find the frame you want - you would enter (or cut and paste) the TC into a window on the CHECK 4K FRAME APP -

this APP would then display as much of the frame in full res as your on-set monitor would support - and allow you to move and position the frame so you sould inspect the entire frame in full res even if your monitor is less than 4K (they all will be for a "while") -

just thinking out loud - but I would like the ability to easily "check" or "inspect" a frame in full res on set -

 

[Nick Shaw]

Great idea. How about building this kind of functionality into another FXPlug for FCP? If the REDFX plugin can access the original 12-bit RAW data in FCP, could an FXPlug also access the 4k hidden in the reference proxy?

If within the FCP time line you could temporarily drop an effect on a clip which would let you see the image pixel for pixel from the 4k, and maybe also pan it around in your 2k/1k proxy frame, that could be very useful.

 

[Rob Lohman]

Nick: the FCP architecture does not allow for such things

The QT stuff, and someone correct me, is more for re-coding to another codec, no?

Why? I'm using it to review stuff shot (in QT player), edit offline or perhaps edit an online in a lower resolution

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Nick: the FCP architecture does not allow for such things

I like it as a seperate utility app -

Rob, can you knock that out in your spare time (LOL!)

 

[Rob Lohman]

What spare time(*)?



* no, alcoholic ingest during NAB does not count

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I wish I could CODE - I'd pitch in ....

(oh my GOD ... did I just say I wish I could .... CODE .... somebody just shoot me now!!!)

 

[Simon Blackledge]

So what applet reads the 1k image from the 4k ? redcode? fcp ? redcode in fcp ?

Can't you just load the 4K and set playback to dynamic then ? so when you stop playhead its 4k.. hit play runs 1/4 rez ?

 

[Nick Shaw]

So what applet reads the 1k image from the 4k ? redcode? fcp ? redcode in fcp ?

Can't you just load the 4K and set playback to dynamic then ? so when you stop playhead its 4k.. hit play runs 1/4 rez ?

I think the proxy generation is done by the codec during the Quicktime decode. So dynamic resolution is not possible. The app (eg FCP) needs to see the QT movie as having a fixed resolution. Correct me if I'm wrong Rob/Graeme.

 

[Simon Blackledge]

Ahh got ya. Something to put in Apple's side of the court ?

 

[P Andersson]

maybe it simply exported the particular frame to jpg or tiff over to photoshop

but the best would be to do the simple "apple option 0" to get pixel by pixel view that you then could move around in by holding down the spacebar in full screen "F-F-F" view and zoom back by "apple 0" like in photoshop

(" " = quick commands in photoshop)

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

maybe it simply exported the particular frame to jpg or tiff over to photoshop

but the best would be to do the simple "apple option 0" to get pixel by pixel view that you then could move around in by holding down the spacebar in full screen "F-F-F" view and zoom back by "apple 0" like in photoshop

(" " = quick commands in photoshop)

Pretty damn sure that if you export a frame from FCP while cutting in 1K extraction mode - you'll get a 1K file - the ref QT is working at a fixed resolution -

That's why I was suggesting a seperate app that would access the 4K REDCODE RAW frame via TC

 

[Nick Shaw]

If somebody feels like coding it, it might be possibe to have FCP source clip midi timecode routed to a background application (like Digital Heaven's 'Big Time' does) and you could flip over to that app and press a 'refresh' key, and it would display the 4k pixel for pixel.

Any programmers out there feel like having a go?

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

that's cool - but I think it's much more useful to see pixel for pixel on set - rather then in the edit room - and I don't intend to run FCP on set -

so, for me, if I could just play/scrub a lower res QT extraction on a laptop - stop on the frame I want to see in 4K - if I can just copy and paste that TC into another app that pulls up the frame in full res - and allow me to move the frame around to view any part of the frame pre monitors resolution - I'm rockin - but you could make this little utility application be able to run fully independent and ALSO allow it to chase FCP TC ...

p.s. - I dig Digital Heaven's stuff -

 

[P Andersson]

I think it's much more useful to see pixel for pixel on set - rather then in the edit room - and I don't intend to run FCP on set -

yes absolutely as fast and easy to get as deep into the image as possible,

that would mean you scrub through a take on set, in REDCINE or QUICKTIME or what.

So you stop the timeline, and then that image would perhaps automatically get loaded full res into RAM in case you choose to view it, kind of like adobe bridge or aperture. That lupe thing is cool to for an even faster detail view.

I guess really what you want is to check the focus on somebody's eye.

If there was a fast way to flip through a couple of different presaved curves or look settings, just by hitting a quick key that would be extra sweet. (push L you get a flat look that shows all the color information, push L again you get an approximation of the final color, push L again it is BW or just the green channel or whatever)