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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K Monitors...

Steven Veldkamp said:
I don't think it means much. I hate being able to see every single wrinkle on someone's face, or clearly seeing the layers of make-up on an actor. 4K only amplifies this problem.
Nature/docs however, 4k hell yeah. :- )
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What makes this problem worse is low resolution coupled with electronic sharpening. With a high native resolution you don't need the enhancements and the result is natural. 4k actually makes this "problem" better, rather than worse.

Graeme
 
I've never been able to find a price online for what 4K monitors are going for. What's the price range?
 
I don't think a handful of 5k plus price TVs count as a release, 1080p tv will be fine for a while
 
Jannard said:
There are so many 4K monitors (TVs) being released that we can hardly keep track. I wonder what that means to shows shot on 1080P?

Jim
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Jim, I'd like to ask you a question that I've avoided asking for a long time. Have you considered going to the mainstream press and media with your message? For the better part of 4 years, you've worked hard to develop products you believe in and care deeply about. And you've stated your case for higher resolution origination for even longer than that, and stated it pretty well. But the only outlet I've ever seen you use for spreading that message is RedUser. While I understand that Internet presence and marketing was part of your plan from the start, the fact is that when you use RedUser to spread your message, you're preaching to the choir. Anyone who supports your company reads this forum, and anyone who doesn't probably doesn't. That leaves those who don't know about it, and thus don't hear your message - which is the very group you really should be trying to reach. I'd really like to see you, Ted, or Jarred go a bit more mainstream at this point and use the power of advertising in various media to spread your message. You're not going to reach consumers and convince them to look at things like RedRay (when it's ready) or anything else unless they know about them. That's not going to happen as long as your only media outlet is your own web site. At this point in Red's development, I think the time has come to go wide with your message. The message doesn't have to change (I don't think you want it to anyway), but it really needs to reach a wider audience than your own customer base. Everyone has heard of Arri, Sony, and Panavision. But to this point, there are a lot of people - both outside and not outside the production industry - who haven't heard of Red and/or haven't seen or used their products. And who really aren't interested in 4K anything because their current clients aren't asking for it. Those are the people you seem to want to reach. But you're not going to reach them if you stick exclusively to RedUser as your messenger.

Just a random thought.
 
M Most said:
Jim, I'd like to ask you a question that I've avoided asking for a long time. Have you considered going to the mainstream press and media with your message? For the better part of 4 years, you've worked hard to develop products you believe in and care deeply about. And you've stated your case for higher resolution origination for even longer than that, and stated it pretty well. But the only outlet I've ever seen you use for spreading that message is RedUser. While I understand that Internet presence and marketing was part of your plan from the start, the fact is that when you use RedUser to spread your message, you're preaching to the choir. Anyone who supports your company reads this forum, and anyone who doesn't probably doesn't. That leaves those who don't know about it, and thus don't hear your message - which is the very group you really should be trying to reach. I'd really like to see you, Ted, or Jarred go a bit more mainstream at this point and use the power of advertising in various media to spread your message. You're not going to reach consumers and convince them to look at things like RedRay (when it's ready) or anything else unless they know about them. That's not going to happen as long as your only media outlet is your own web site. At this point in Red's development, I think the time has come to go wide with your message. The message doesn't have to change (I don't think you want it to anyway), but it really needs to reach a wider audience than your own customer base. Everyone has heard of Arri, Sony, and Panavision. But to this point, there are a lot of people - both outside and not outside the production industry - who haven't heard of Red and/or haven't seen or used their products. And who really aren't interested in 4K anything because their current clients aren't asking for it. Those are the people you seem to want to reach. But you're not going to reach them if you stick exclusively to RedUser as your messenger. Just a random thought.
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Great post Mike. +1 that RED is preaching to the converted here. I think it's time for RED to hire a publicist to step out and set the record straight (given how much credit Sony and Arri) are getting for 4K (we will exclude Dalsa from this argument) Im talking the recent press citing Sony pioneering 4K, the recent mess with Arri = VALIDATION.

You have plenty of it here (and from serious A- List filmmakers) but there is no time like the present to prepare the masses for 4K displays and theater.
 
It's good to see everyone else is finally catching up to RED :ihih:

4ktvred.jpg
 
Where is the public going to consciously view 4K so they can judge for themselves whether it is superior or not? Look how much trouble the enlightened ones here on REDUser had determining whether theaters with 4K projectors were actually showing a 4K DCP of GWDT? Theaters and distributors need to advertise it more - maybe RED can push them. But unless those who directly interface with the public make it clear viewers are watching real 4K, then there will be a lot of FUD generated from people who watch a 4K projection of a 2K DCP. Another key to education are local reviewers, who (theoretically) would be able to distinguish the advantages and pass along knowledge of specific venues to their audience. How to reach them?
 
Sharp announced to lunch 4K 3D TV soon this year...
Although 4K prosumer monitors have been there.. but they are not affordable... Specially the Sony one :S

And Taiwanese manufacture Chimei is ready to mass produce the 4K monitor as well..

Guess soon 4K will become the new "Full HD" TV
 
The only thing I question is how long would it take to update the infrastructure to be able to handle 4k. Because it seems (at least in my area) not only can't they hardly handle 1080p but they are pretty slow to react to updates in technology.

I want 4k now! :emote_head_explode:
 
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Gavin Greenwalt said:
I'll start paying attention to 4K deliverables when someone starts reliably delivering acceptable 1080p first. :P
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hehe... the truth hurts.

I don't have high hopes for the new Blu-Ray 4K /QHD spec to fix any of this. Hopefully RED-RAY can deliver what we all want.
 
Timur Civan said:
1080p is a stop gap.

Theres nothing inherently wrong with it. Its the in-between.

ALOT is going to be 1080p for a long time. The Future.....? 4k for sure.

What are your thoughts on going beyond that? I mean, For the home viewer, after a certain point with screen size, resolution becomes moot. On a 70" TV, the difference between 4k and 1080p is clearly visible.... but take the same 70" TV, and put 6k or 8k on it... i dont think you'll see a big jump between 4k and 8k. I think the bigger camera resolutions are going to be more for behind the scenes, effects work and technical stuff we deal with. Sort of how, with Debayer, 5k becomes a razor 4k when down sampled.
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Well, for the 'future' we could talk entire walls coming to life when needed. In that world 4k will still hold up nicely, but 4k it is a stop gap as well, everything is. We are. Screens onto themselves are a stop gap, with some sort of optical nerve patch-in deeming them obsolete... Weird stuff in the future.

4k will hold nicely on so many "walls". The cool thing is that we won't need to wait too much for these kinds of succulent spreads at home. With RED's announced 4k laser projector under $10k, which could be pretty close... Good consumer versions will follow quickly, that's for sure. Can we haz??
 
I think the better question is who is going to be first to set the standards for 4k distribution. We need some kind of box that can play a compressed 4k stream and be Internet connected to a service that distributes 4k content. The same service could have a commercial division to provide distribution for theaters. Just a thought...
 
The advantage of shooting Red is that even if you're only delivering at 1080 right now, you have 4K raw footage that you can always go back to.
 
I'd like to see a 40'' 4K screen I bet the pixel density is nuts on a screen that size. Just big enough and small enough.

I honestly think 1080p losses it's coolness once you go past 24'', pixels get too big for my taste
 
M Most said:
Jim, I'd like to ask you a question that I've avoided asking for a long time. Have you considered going to the mainstream press and media with your message? For the better part of 4 years, you've worked hard to develop products you believe in and care deeply about. And you've stated your case for higher resolution origination for even longer than that, and stated it pretty well. But the only outlet I've ever seen you use for spreading that message is RedUser. While I understand that Internet presence and marketing was part of your plan from the start, the fact is that when you use RedUser to spread your message, you're preaching to the choir. Anyone who supports your company reads this forum, and anyone who doesn't probably doesn't. That leaves those who don't know about it, and thus don't hear your message - which is the very group you really should be trying to reach. I'd really like to see you, Ted, or Jarred go a bit more mainstream at this point and use the power of advertising in various media to spread your message. You're not going to reach consumers and convince them to look at things like RedRay (when it's ready) or anything else unless they know about them. That's not going to happen as long as your only media outlet is your own web site. At this point in Red's development, I think the time has come to go wide with your message. The message doesn't have to change (I don't think you want it to anyway), but it really needs to reach a wider audience than your own customer base. Everyone has heard of Arri, Sony, and Panavision. But to this point, there are a lot of people - both outside and not outside the production industry - who haven't heard of Red and/or haven't seen or used their products. And who really aren't interested in 4K anything because their current clients aren't asking for it. Those are the people you seem to want to reach. But you're not going to reach them if you stick exclusively to RedUser as your messenger.

Just a random thought.
Click to expand...

Tim Whitcomb said:
Great post Mike. +1 that RED is preaching to the converted here. I think it's time for RED to hire a publicist to step out and set the record straight (given how much credit Sony and Arri) are getting for 4K (we will exclude Dalsa from this argument) Im talking the recent press citing Sony pioneering 4K, the recent mess with Arri = VALIDATION.

You have plenty of it here (and from serious A- List filmmakers) but there is no time like the present to prepare the masses for 4K displays and theater.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that maybe it's still too early to go the publicity route. Just thinking that RED needs to get product available for the public to purchase before awakening the great unwashed. Perhaps a "coming soon" publicity campaign just to make the people who may be buyers of a Red Ray or Red Projector aware... but as far as cameras go, current (and future) Scarlet and Epic owners are like an advertising army. I, for one, preach about the camera and what's coming to whomever will listen. Some people yawn back at me, but I'm guessing that if they become bored they will still remember what once made them bored when they hear the term "RED" again in a different context.

In my own experience, I told a man a story a while back and he seemed disinterested. A couple weeks later a reference to the subject of our previous conversation came up and the guy recited back almost verbatim to me what I had told him. Of course he said he couldn't remember where he heard it. All I'm saying is I think appropriately the word-of-mouth stage is where RED is currently at and since the products for the time being are aimed toward the current or future professional, their message is being delivered.

Still, nothing would please me more than seeing that big red logo on the hood of the Wood Brothers number 21 Ford during the upcoming NASCAR season. ;-)
 
I just wish Jim could clone himself and his core team and RED could work on more things simultaneously. Jim has an incredible track record for building superior companies, and I am sure RED is going to be a dominant player in many, many aspects of the media industry going forward. The only glitch is that it takes time to build out all these technologies and products, as well as the infrastructure to support them. Oh, the problems of success!
 
I do have to wonder if this will be one of the last major resolution upgrades. Going 1080p to 4K is noticable, but it's not as big of a jump as SD to HD was. There's a point where the eye simply can't tell the difference in sharpness anymore.
Unless someone starts producing 200" 8K screens or something similar.
 
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