Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K in USA household by 2106 ONLY 1% a very sobering FACT

All of my Computer monitors laptop and desktop are over 1080 today.
My Cellphone is over 1080
The next cell phone I get this year is 4K i look forward to it.


More and more TV programming is watched on other than a Television set.

Oversampling is a good thing for more reasons than todays TV sets.
 
I was In a class and they said half of watching was on computers, and on the rest, 20% of the time the person is interacting with a portable device. Since most computers & devices now are above 2k, a rough exterpolation says that 80% of views will be above 1080p in 2016. Might not be quadhd, but 80% above 1080p seems a pretty compelling reason to shoot at something higher then 2k.
 
Hell by 2106 I expect to have the images beamed right into my brain in perfect organic analog cybercolor. Probably be able to get a BS4 soon after too.
 
The new MacBook's display is roughly equivalent to 3K. That is in addition to the MacBook Pro and the two iMacs which have display resolutions of over 2K. Every iPad except the original Mini has a display of 2K+. I think people enjoy buying iPads and laptops more than TVs.

HD is great per se - but if you're shooting footage, you'd want to capture at 4K at least. It just makes sense.
 
Yeah -

So I'm fully committed to 4K and more K capture & delivery. I have several telecom / cable content contracts that have a 4K master clause - because they know it's coming and want to have something to push down the pipe... at a later date. In some cases, a much later date.

Here's the thing - we here on REDUser all live in a bubble of high quality uncompressed content. But step into your uncles living room (or 80+% of the living rooms out there) and you're going to see a cheap 16:9 LCD flatscreen; that's been pulled from the box and turned on with the factory settings. More than likely they aren't paying for the HD package, so there will be an SD signal blown up to fit the screen - in some cases a 4:3 SD signal stretched to fit 16:9. Even if they have the HD package, the signal is so badly and completely compressed it still looks - wrong.

There is also a dearth of content available, with only a few OTT companies committed to providing 4K. I recently won a contract to provide short form OTT VOD food content to a large American Telephone & Telegraph company; beating out a content creator who owned a Food Television and a Home and Garden Television property, because not only did they not have 4K content but they also don't even have a roadmap at this point. They are still trying to recapture the cost of upgrading to HD; from their standpoint is UHD worth it? Or will the next 2xUHD flavour be on scene before they can make the switch?

So while we have a growing number of screens with UHD or larger... The major content creators are going to lag far behind.



P.S. The study says 10% by 2016...
 
Last edited:
In many ways we've been on a long "first date" with 4K and 4K+ in the home.

But let's just talk about a couple of notable important things that are happening or will be happening soon.

- Youtube has been supporting 4K for years.
- Vimeo is supporting 4K (and working to improve it)
- All current and future Netflix production will be finished in 4K.
- Amazon, HBO, etc... Are or will be finishing in 4K shortly.
- DirectTV has a 4K service.
- Moderately recently the first NBA game 4K broadcast "test" occurred.
- 4K has been tested with most other major sports to start developing pipelines and workflows.
- 4K Broadcast hasn't been possible until fairly recently for "reasons".
- UHD Blu-ray is coming before the year is out.
- Several of the last few years of movies will be releasing UHD Blu-ray.
- Several films have been remastered or are currently being remastered in 4K.
- SmartTVs feature the ability to stream UHD 4K straight into homes, like Netflix for instance.
- NVIDIA is making a push for 4K streaming content via their new Shield and store.
- Other "famiilar names" will be doing the same relatively soon.
- Major studios are currently finishing out several films in 4K with more and more coming everyday.
- There is a 4K tablet and are 4K laptops at this point.
- Cell Phones are producing 4K videos.
- UHD 4K Televisions have dropped massively in price and continue to do so. Consumers can afford them.

Long and the short of what I'm saying is we'll be seeing exponential growth on this front and in some big ways between 2015-2018. These next 2-3 years are going to be important as there's still a lot up in the air, though some things have now been really hammered down. HDMI 2.0 comes to mind. The newer video codecs are now done (VP9 and HEVC/H.265).

There's still a lot of stuff in the air, especially when talking about some of the in development technology. However, at this point and I mean fairly recently through the end of the year you will see more 4K content and ways to access this content.

Do note the article discusses the exponential growth the market and that's what will happen and is important.
 
Phil Holland said:
- Youtube has been supporting 4K for years.
Click to expand...


In my last Google / Youtube meeting (about a month ago) they talked about stats concerning 4K usage - Uplaods, streams, viewer screen size, and viewer impressions. The numbers were staggeringly dire - uptake remains low, both on the creation / upload side, and the download / view side. Consumer screen size (yes they know what you are watching on) still remains small - which may lead to the next observation that 'most' (when surveyed) couldn't tell the difference between 4K and 1080. That last point is the most telling - if the end consumer can't see the difference, then the motivation to ditch their current set is pretty low. No matter how many Tech websites and publications tell them that they should. Mobile phone / tablet is the only bright spot as consumers are more likely to ditch current tech (even if it's working) to get the latest with higher resolution. Pinch point is bandwidth speed & cost on those devices.

So while I hope I'm wrong (My studio is filled with 4K+) I feel that as Phil puts it:

Phil Holland said:
In many ways we've been on a long "first date" with 4K and 4K+ in the home.
Click to expand...

This long first date may continue longer than we think it should. The bright spots are the OTT media companies who aren't bogged down with billions of legacy equipment that they haven't yet fully paid for.
 
Maybe a more telling statistic would be "what proportion of new TVs over 30 inches are 4k"?

With even ARM mobile chips now able to display 4k @ 120hz building devices that Can't do 4k is probably going to impact sales.

On the PC front ... some software has almost unreadable text with 2560 pixels across on a 30" screen.
Eg Apples Xcode ! Without software change ... I'll need a 55" PC display for 4K (unless I use one of the fudge-it hi-dpi modes).

What we also need is everyone to push for 12 bit (or more) so that One standard can show both Hi dynamic range and all the colours that a person can see. Set the standards for excellence and device makers will be able to differentiate themselves and strive for excellence.

When GPUs are on 14nm .... I reckon 50% of all new TVs bought in America will be 4k.

AJ
 
Last edited:
Yusuf, I'd be surprised if there where as many 4k TV's in US homes as that in 2106. :)

But seriously, the pentration percentages in Australia outstrip the US in recent years, and most of the cheap sets went to places like China in recent years, so I wonder if they have also been outstripping the US too before the US takes the lead. But 4k bluray might be a game changer again, as was DVD and bluray before it.

I still want 8k, not for filming, but for work.
 
PatrickFaith said:
I was In a class and they said half of watching was on computers, and on the rest, 20% of the time the person is interacting with a portable device. Since most computers & devices now are above 2k, a rough exterpolation says that 80% of views will be above 1080p in 2016. Might not be quadhd, but 80% above 1080p seems a pretty compelling reason to shoot at something higher then 2k.
Click to expand...

These are not real statistics, not even close, of typical consumers.
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
The new MacBook's display is roughly equivalent to 3K. That is in addition to the MacBook Pro and the two iMacs which have display resolutions of over 2K. Every iPad except the original Mini has a display of 2K+. I think people enjoy buying iPads and laptops more than TVs.

HD is great per se - but if you're shooting footage, you'd want to capture at 4K at least. It just makes sense.
Click to expand...

"I think people enjoy buying ipads more than TVs" is not a consumer statistic. Most people still watch most of their content on their living room sets.
 
Exactly! All this talk about 4K/5K/6K on mobile devices and small screens is just ridiculously funny. I mean, I get consumers being hyped, they have to consume, but shouldn't filmmakers understand when such resolutions actually make a difference?
 
On most of the sample 4K content you see at the store the first thing that comes to my mind is how much lenses need to improve. Chromatic aberrations, soft corners, vignetting, etc... are much more prominent looking at the larger screen sizes and higher resolutions. I also find that, except for locked down deep DOF tripod shots, it doesn't really make much difference. You're just sampling motion blur and bokeh with more pixels.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
These are not real statistics, not even close, of typical consumers.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Overview can be had via netflix and nielsen reports. Nice quick review is done by wall street journal, and a nice easy video is at " http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/77c1ce5f2e8c2bb74730d632b3c18be0.htm

To break down the stat's to capability percentage, first split is percent of people that watch through computer vs percentage through standard channels(assuming standard channels is all 7200/1080p). From this you can derive the screen mode based on manufacturing ratios. On the computer split, then you sub split that distribution based on usage of the various devices if they support greater then 1080p(i.e. g3 phone, iPad, etc). This gives the capability of people to watch over 1080p, not the percentage of people watching over 1080p.

These are numbers that the advertisers pay to, nothing is perfect and their is a lot of estimations, but the number of devices that support greater then 1080p and the percentage of time they are used can be done very accurately. Since their is very little 4k content available for distribution, i think looking at 4k streamings numbers as indicative of capability is not useful.
 
Phil Holland said:
In many ways we've been on a long "first date" with 4K and 4K+ in the home.

But let's just talk about a couple of notable important things that are happening or will be happening soon.

- Youtube has been supporting 4K for years.
- Vimeo is supporting 4K (and working to improve it)
- All current and future Netflix production will be finished in 4K.
- Amazon, HBO, etc... Are or will be finishing in 4K shortly.
- DirectTV has a 4K service.
- Moderately recently the first NBA game 4K broadcast "test" occurred.
- 4K has been tested with most other major sports to start developing pipelines and workflows.
- 4K Broadcast hasn't been possible until fairly recently for "reasons".
- UHD Blu-ray is coming before the year is out.
- Several of the last few years of movies will be releasing UHD Blu-ray.
- Several films have been remastered or are currently being remastered in 4K.
- SmartTVs feature the ability to stream UHD 4K straight into homes, like Netflix for instance.
- NVIDIA is making a push for 4K streaming content via their new Shield and store.
- Other "famiilar names" will be doing the same relatively soon.
- Major studios are currently finishing out several films in 4K with more and more coming everyday.
- There is a 4K tablet and are 4K laptops at this point.
- Cell Phones are producing 4K videos.
- UHD 4K Televisions have dropped massively in price and continue to do so. Consumers can afford them.

Long and the short of what I'm saying is we'll be seeing exponential growth on this front and in some big ways between 2015-2018. These next 2-3 years are going to be important as there's still a lot up in the air, though some things have now been really hammered down. HDMI 2.0 comes to mind. The newer video codecs are now done (VP9 and HEVC/H.265).

There's still a lot of stuff in the air, especially when talking about some of the in development technology. However, at this point and I mean fairly recently through the end of the year you will see more 4K content and ways to access this content.

Do note the article discusses the exponential growth the market and that's what will happen and is important.
Click to expand...

The fact that you are seeing so much 4k and yet deliveries for the most part remain in 1080 for the vast majority of projects also says something.
I can certainly see here how many folks at REDuser are invested in that outcome, but frankly 4k being mainstream for everyone is still probably more than 2-3 years away.
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
The fact that you are seeing so much 4k and yet deliveries for the most part remain in 1080 for the vast majority of projects also says something.
I can certainly see here how many folks at REDuser are invested in that outcome, but frankly 4k being mainstream for everyone is still probably more than 2-3 years away.
Click to expand...

More than that. It's been six years since the switchover to digital TV in the US was complete. Yet how many people are watching real HD, with real HD resolution at home now? Not nearly as many as you'd think. Why can't viewers see the difference between HD and SD on their home sets? Because it isn't there. The compression schemes used by cable and satellite operators mangles the picture so badly that on some channels all I see is macro-blocks. The failure of cable operators to upgrade their delivery systems to cary decent pictures has driven many people to streaming-only TV with Netflix, Amazon and Hulu. But the shitty broadband to the home in most of the U.S. leaves them regularly reducing resolution. Then there's 720p? Why on earth was that standard not killed in infancy? Because ABC and Panasonic made a bad bet and the FCC didn't have the balls to let the chips fall where they should have. And don't get me started on cable operators center-cutting content so that we all have to design to a "4x3 with wings" format.

For those of us who live and breathe this stuff and live in homes with 35Mbit internet, UHD Is terrific, but if we're more than 2% of the market, I'll be shocked. For the rest of the viewing universe, it's going to take 10 years. At least.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top