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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K Delivery... get ready.

Axel Mertes said:
At least its big fun to see Sony "react" that way. They sell a 4K TV and due to lack of content and playback, they create a 4K Player (would like to see whats in there, as PS4? A small PC with a BMD card?) out of nothing for free to keep sales going. Crazy stuff...

Yep, looking forward to RED RAY announcements. However, it was said to be 2009 and beside the fact we saw photos from manufacturing we have no more info yet. And its end 2012, so its definetly due.
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Spiderman... shot on EPIC :) heh heh heh
 
Dan Frenkel said:
TED S. Did say they were not going to talk so much anymore and give out too much because competitors were paying too much attention to what Jim was doing with RED. Now that Sony blew their wad first, don't be surprised if RED makes some adjustments for a late release time today at best! I think they maybe even have known about this and anticipated it by SONY. I think RED will deliver a blow to the not so impressive SONY release guys. Either way, Jim & Co. design a much more robust system and it will compliment RED content much better to industry professionals even with the relationships in place. My money is still on RED to be the UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD IN THE 4K CAGE!!!!!
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Yep. All my chips (meager as they might be) are going to RED. EFF the competition. Sony had its chance.
 
Waiting is killing me

We Should see 'name brand' LCD's in the $2K range next year.
My money is on Red Projector because I want the floor to ceiling 110 degree emersive set up a front projector brings to the table.
8.5 foot ceiling = 19' diagonal 2:1 screen
 
We knew it was coming... And now it is here. :)

Rejoice! And party on.

P.S.: Does this make Dragon next in line? Film flowing through your processors, anyone? In the emerging 4k world?
 
Dave Archer said:
Waiting is killing me

We Should see 'name brand' LCD's in the $2K range next year.
My money is on Red Projector because I want the floor to ceiling 110 degree emersive set up a front projector brings to the table.
8.5 foot ceiling = 19' diagonal 2:1 screen
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I was treated to a screening on a RED projector recently. It is CRAZY, and tiny. You will not be disappointed. Game changer.
 
Can't wait to see what RED offers. Though I have to say, I have not seen many projectors that are great unless the room is 100% dark. I hope their solution can work in normal rooms (as in rooms that have windows or some lights on).
 
More than Lenses, I am most interested in a RED Projector and a REDRAY, on a custom Adobe PC. But since I mentioned lenses, I bet RED is already set on what they are coming out with next on that front; probably late next year, but more likely late on the year next, not more. What I'd love to see there is the same or better quality with all-around improved scales and a good 35% smaller and lighter. That after a Dragon release will render RED a one-stop shop for the best of the awesome. You must have the awesome. Precious... Too bad RED is a scam.
 
FWIW I think 4K will be enough resolution for 99% of viewing scenarios. Due to the physical size of humans, visual system metrics, size of viewing spaces, etc there is in fact a point of diminishing returns past 4K in strict resolution terms. I believe HFR, greater color depth, S3D, less compression, etc will be the next frontier once 4K resolution is conquered.

Cheers - #19
 
All of these things are important of course, but there are enough examples in the stills world to suggest that higher than 4K is indeed distinguishable. Even on finishing dimensions considerably smaller than the largest TV's, not to mention cinema screens. 4K is not too shabby, but it is not the pinnacle by any means.
 
Less compression already exists, in lots of flavors, but perhaps you are saying and I would agree, that Graeme and Deanan are not done souping-up REDCODE. Because art is never finished, only abandoned!

Dragon release will bring a little something special there. I'd make sure a new sensor always did.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I am most interested in a RED Projector and a REDRAY, on a custom Adobe PC.
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It is an incredibly tiny, brilliant, clean, chroma-rich, 3D capable, modular -- scam. Haha.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I think the trouble with trying to define standardized resolutions is the multitude of common viewing sizes and distances that are possible. Ultimately, the goal is to erase all doubt or perception of pexelized elements -- the "retina display" effect. I think 1080p is a fine resolution for smart phones. 2K or 2.5K is great for tablet devices. That seems easy to identify and the market has fallen into alignment. When it comes to larger displays, there is no clear-cut formula. Some people try to claim there is, but it doesn't work that way. 1080p on a 32" display is just fine if you're always 25ft. away from it. If it's sitting on your desk, it's pixelized murder.

At my roughly 8~9 foot viewing distance to my 50" plasma monitor, I can still make out pixels just fine on its 1080p screen. I definitely want to move to 4K for that display and would also like to go to a 55" or a bit larger than what I have -- 60" is probably asking a bit too much, but it might work if the bezel frame is thin enough.

At my 12 ~ 14 foot distance where I sit from my 71" 1080p DLP, I could definitely use more resolution. 4K again would make sense.

I think the progression beyond 4K will come as well, NHK along with JVC and Sony are exploring (and have been for some time) their SuperHiVision "8K" format. I wish they wouldn't call it 8K, it's actually 7K and nowhere near 8K in terms of typical "K" calculations or any other mathematically accepted ways to get there. But that's another discussion I guess. So far it's hard to judge what 7K+ will bring to the table because the image quality thus far on that technology has been dreadful.

In my own experience and testing, there is no real perception or effect of diminishing returns. More resolution is a continued improvement up to the point where it's enough and we just can't see any more detail. Now, I think there is merit to having resolution greater than what our visual acuity allows. Even though we can't resolve beyond a certain point, there is still inflections and interference patterns created that our eyes and brain can detect in the form of further perceived texture and detail. I guess this is the point where the discussion goes completely speculative and theoretical, even philosophical. There was a paper a few years back from Stanford along with some other industry partner or other school talking about the uses of ultra-high resolution. Steve Jobs even cited this paper at one point, back in '05 or somewhere about then, when the first talk of "retina' displays surfaced and there were patents being filed for resolution independence for computer displays. The theory basically went along the lines of supplying 300~400 ppi to desktop displays and defining screen dimensions in points or physical dimensions rather than pixel resolutions. Everything was ultra-high print resolution or vector based and could be scaled as needed to fit the display parameters. This is where computer displays are ultimately headed. And I think all other screens as well. 300+ ppi. Distribution formats will become multi-resolution -- similar to what we can do now with wavelet based codecs, but expanding on it. Eventually we'll be creating 28K or whatever for cinema screens and it the same file that plays there will play at 8K on a home projector, 4K on a common UHD TV, 2K on a tablet...

Anyway, that's where I see it all going. And perhaps even expanding from there once the 300 ppi "retina" thing has come to pass. Lots of other exciting tech showing up in the display field such as microfaceted surface 3D -- where different wavelengths and amounts of light are sent out of the same pixel element at different angles. This is the future of no-glasses 3D from a 2D surface. Unlimited viewing angles and no parallax barriers or other alignment issues. And yet, viewers on one side of the room will see a slightly different, yet still 3D, effect than those in the middle or on the other side.

3D spatial projection is also becoming reality. In its infancy now, but in another 100 years, I'll be surprised if we don't have something comparable to the Star Trek "holodeck". Just think of the level of detail required there to make something 100% convincing. 300ppi on 3D reflected spatial surfaces won't cut it.


Perhaps in a nutshell, the real way to look it this is... Resolution is like CPU power and storage capacity. It is going to increase at an ever accelerating pace until it can accommodate anything we can dream of doing. Resolution has had a few hiccups along the way, primarily getting stuck in the HD doldrums and various display technology transitions holding it back, but this is happening.
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Blair S. Paulsen said:
FWIW I think 4K will be enough resolution for 99% of viewing scenarios. Due to the physical size of humans, visual system metrics, size of viewing spaces, etc there is in fact a point of diminishing returns past 4K in strict resolution terms. I believe HFR, greater color depth, S3D, less compression, etc will be the next frontier once 4K resolution is conquered.

Cheers - #19
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Hmmm. That's one of the great things about this forum. Opinions abound.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
FWIW I think 4K will be enough resolution for 99% of viewing scenarios. Due to the physical size of humans, visual system metrics, size of viewing spaces, etc there is in fact a point of diminishing returns past 4K in strict resolution terms. I believe HFR, greater color depth, S3D, less compression, etc will be the next frontier once 4K resolution is conquered.

Cheers - #19
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Don't forget that 85" size or larger for future touch displays needs 8K / aka "Retina", where you are an arms length away from the screen most of the time, so 4K is not quite enough, 8K is enough there; and I'd love to have 16 HD channels popping at once on Game day...
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Less compression already exists, in lots of flavors, but perhaps you are saying and I would agree, that Graeme and Deanan are not done souping-up REDCODE. Because art is never finished, only abandoned!

Dragon release will bring a little something special there. I'd make sure a new sensor always did.
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Deanan moved on to other pastures. Notice I didn't say "greener." I think that would be a tough sell.


And that is in NO WAY meant as a diss to Deanan, I have nothing but respect for him. Rather, that's a compliment to an unmatched work environment.
 
Eryc Tramonn said:
Deanan moved on to other pastures. Notice I didn't say "greener." I think that would be a tough sell.


And that is in NO WAY meant as a diss to Deanan, I have nothing but respect for him. Rather, that's a compliment to an unmatched work environment.
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Oh wow... That's right... I guess I never let Deanan go in my world.

Anyway... same thing is expected to happen because we are talking about RED.

Oh, and Dragon.

Dragon very much,
Rob
 
It's an interesting concept. I've been shooting with Red for a while. Many I meet on the outside are super excited about the Red One, Epic, and Scarlet. Either from faint whispers they've heard or a friend of a friend shooting on them. Even today while I was out shooting in the rain people were asking questions about the camera and if they could touch it.

However, right this very moment, everything that Red has been all about is really about to land and hit home. 4K will soon be readily available to view and not such a new concept. I remember before the Red One being released being excited and optimistic about a camera system like that. Epic came through in a huge way. Scarlet made it available to more. Dragon's going to be here soon and will by flying around for a while.

4K delivery is on the horizon. LCD tech has evolved so much. Inexpensive 4K displays are just over the hill.

Many companies are going to want to plant a flag in 4K territory early. We've been seeing and will be seeing more of that. The key thing is to make those playback devices "right" so they are what people desire and want to use.

And we're getting here a bit early too. I remember on an old Sony road map that 2015 was going to be the year they were moving towards 4K devices.

The good news for all Red shooters out there is that this new saturation will produce a market that will make you much more in demand. Especially experienced folks.

It's all happening right now and it's about to get really fun.
 
.... Its 23:45 over here... do I have to stay up to not miss the announcement?

J talk to me :)
 
I have a question. Is the Red Ray meant for professional use or is this the device I would want to get if I were to buy one of the 4K TVs that are beginning to emerge in the market. In other words, is red ray supposed to replace the blu-ray?
 
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