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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4k / 2k PRO RES / DNxHD MODULE - who wants one.

+1. I think having the option to shoot RAW or ProRes, or both together is great. Having options is where it's at. I'd prefer this as a module too, because it's one less clunky device strapped onto the rig (like a KiPro or 240). While those devices are great, they need their own power supply, and signal, which means more wires (which means more wires to get unplugged by accident). Eliminating the video and power cables is just better all around, and the firmware could likely be updated to account for future efficient codecs.
 
so long over due...Mark you have it made...without WI-FI it couldnt be too hard.basically an enclosed sound device pix 240 the only tricky part is seeing the menu on the 5" monitor but that cant be rocket science as the pix already has dialougue with the Epic. The only backlash for me is i dont have the Directors weight you do and agency will end the post process at Prores and im gonna have to shoot to handcuff them in mind more often...my thoughts
 
1. Records DNxHD or ProRes - 4K, 10 or 12 bit RedlogFilm.

2. Writes to consumer SSD drives (like Blackmagic HyperDeck - which seems to manage 150MB/sec write of random video data using $300 256GB SSDs - eg plenty datarate, no problem)

For bonus points:

3. Optionally sticks a 3D LUT on your RedLogFilm output and pipes that out via HD-SDI (so you can record RedLogFilm but give a client feed in a format that represents the look you'll go for)

4. Has Sound Devices preamps, VU meters, gain knobs and headphone monitoring. Completely bypasses Red's audio pipeline and just writes whatever comes in those pres to the DNxHD / ProRes file.

Then I'd buy a Scarlet and nothing else. Skip the SSD module and expensive proprietary SSDs (nearly twice the price of Sony's media for the F65 WTF?!). I can rent 'em later if there's ever an actual need to shoot "real RAW".

Hmm... maybe that's why RED hasn't done this yet! We have been asking about this for years...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I totally think this makes sense.

Much as I love the RAW workflow, 100% of what we shoot gets immediately converted to ProRes . This is where Alexa is winning over RED for the TV drama work here in the UK as it can output edit ready media immediately.

I'm also concerned about the very high costs associated with RED SSD media art the moment. I'm all for a healthy mark up and profit but RED's margins on this must be VERY high. It seems crazy to sell Scarlet at such a reasonable price and charge such a premium on the media.

Scott
 
Scott Brown said:
I totally think this makes sense.

Much as I love the RAW workflow, 100% of what we shoot gets immediately converted to ProRes . This is where Alexa is winning over RED for the TV drama work here in the UK as it can output edit ready media immediately.
Click to expand...

Many here keep saying that, but at least in the US, on network/studio level shows, it's just not true. Nobody uses ProRes444 in LogC directly for editing. Every show I know of goes through a transcoding process to convert to either DNxHD36 or DNxHD115, add a normalizing LUT and/or color correction, and also to sync double system sound. What makes the Alexa attractive for TV work is its simplicity. When those transcodes happen, there aren't choices to be made as to gamma curve, color matrix (well, sort of, it's usually included in a normalizing LUT), and the myriad of other settings. With Red, you get power, the ability to change the parameters of what was shot. But with power comes complication and the need for understanding exactly what it is you're doing. With Alexa, you get a ready to transcode log format file that doesn't require you to change or understand anything, which eliminates complication, opinions, and mistakes. It also can be displayed directly in its native format on any standard monitor. And it doesn't require any proprietary hardware to play or transcode at full speed.

It's the simplicity, not the "edit readiness" or lack of it.
 
I like Bruce Allen's list. Maybe this thread will convince SD to attempt it. Third party modules are not out of the question. A year or so ago Jim said a third party was working on a module. Never heard what it was, or any follow-up, but apparently RED is/was willing to cooperate with third parties on module development.

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Steve Wake
Hey Matt,

Since you're hanging out here tonight, here's a question: would it be of any interest to Sound Devices to make a Pix 240 with a RED module form factor, taking advantage of the pins that go directly to Epic/Scarlet Brain circuits? No screen, but instead interface with RED's menus. Same audio inputs as PIX/MixPre, plus maybe also more MixPre type functions - limiters, test signal, knobs, led meters. Power from RED supply.

How many would you have to sell to make it viable? I think a lot of Scarlet owners will have customers who just want 1080p files for quite awhile. 4K is the future, but the transition will be lengthy for certain sectors.



Steve,

Sorry, too many forums and not enough time...

Of interest? Sure. But we would obviously have to get the blessing (and technical info) from Red to do it. I'm not involved in any of those higher level manufacturer-manufacturer discussions so I can't even begin to say whether it is even a possibility.

Matt Mayer
Sound Mixer
Applications Engineer
Sound Devices, LLC
 
Last edited:
Martin Weiss said:
You just entered into a legally binding contract over the purchase of 10 million units.

Thanks you for your business.

(And I would love ​one as well.)
Click to expand...

:lol: Damn - my enthusiasm does sometimes land me in trouble! That's gonna take a while to pay off!!! Maybe RED shouldn't make this module ;-)

All the best,
 
Scott Brown said:
I totally think this makes sense.

Much as I love the RAW workflow, 100% of what we shoot gets immediately converted to ProRes . This is where Alexa is winning over RED for the TV drama work here in the UK as it can output edit ready media immediately.
Click to expand...

I agree with Scott on this one. Here in the UK, Alexa is doing well because of the ease by which the Alexa can spit out the ProRes files. Speaking to a number of people the last few weeks, those that are using a FCP workflow for editing (offline / online) would like to shoot RED but feel the Alexa would give them a quicker turnaround for editing. Those that do some editing on Premier are okay with the editing of R3D and those using AVID are still converting to DNxHD. Deliverables for the likes of the BBC are in DNxHD format. They have told me that they don't mind what you film on, so long as the files come in a DNxHD format. So I find having to convert to DNxHD or ProRes anyway. I guess this would just speed up the process. They also are not using MC6 which has support for EPIC, most are still on MC5.5 and it might be a while before most places have upgraded.

I am all for RAW. I love the format and for personal projects I prefer to use MC6 / Premier over FCP at the moment because you can drop the R3D straight onto the timeline and edit. But I can see that where some clients are closed minded despite explaining things to them :)

I think a module such as this would allow a quicker turnaround for editorial to offline then associate them back to the R3D for grading.

+ 1 from me on this.

:))
 
if this thing can add in camera sound to the created files on the fly it would kill the nasty A cam.

ALL COMMERCIALS IN GERMANY SHOOT ON ALEXA BECAUSE OF THEIR PRORES STUFF AND NO NEED OF A ROCKET.

i would pay 7k-8,5k for such a module.....so red can have a mini-rocket inside and pay the licence fees of dnxhd and make a profit.
one ssd slot would be great...throw in a 256 card and forget it till the end of the day. Bang.
 
Marcos Montenegro said:
That would be cool, but doesn't the Sound Devices PIX 240 do this already? I mean, at least for the QT PRO RES stuff, right?
Click to expand...

No, the pix cant do slow motion shots....and there are already enough assecoires hanging around the cam like lockit, remote controll, cinetape etc.
 
Mikael Lubtchansky said:
Nice mockup and nice module idea, would be a best seller for sure...

don't want to hijack the thread but here is my dream module...

PMA.png



it acts both as a module adapter and a mini Pro-IO with :

an additionnel EVF/LCD port on dumb side for AC, 2 extra user buttons and an SD slot to store cam presets and if possible serve as emergency firmware reinstall (similar to what we had on the RED ONE)
Not sure it is at all doable size-wise but that would be an awesome module to keep a small camera but use 2 RED displays when needed.


...
Click to expand...


i wish this thing......or a NEW side module with 4 Buttons and two Monitor Ports......3 of the buttons have to be pushed to format a ssd drive without the LCD/Sidehandle or redmote......there is no way i know of how to format without these units.

in most of my set ups we use v-mounts on the back and the right side is covered up with cheeseplates. the redmote is used hardly because of the not so strong connection :)

so we end up switching between lcd and evf because its faster than to navigate through the menu with the redmote. /same for playback.....push two buttons and playback starts.....and if you push all four buttons every button should be LOCKED except the recording button.
 
M Most said:
Many here keep saying that, but at least in the US, on network/studio level shows, it's just not true. Nobody uses ProRes444 in LogC directly for editing. Every show I know of goes through a transcoding process to convert to either DNxHD36 or DNxHD115, add a normalizing LUT and/or color correction, and also to sync double system sound. What makes the Alexa attractive for TV work is its simplicity. When those transcodes happen, there aren't choices to be made as to gamma curve, color matrix (well, sort of, it's usually included in a normalizing LUT), and the myriad of other settings. With Red, you get power, the ability to change the parameters of what was shot. But with power comes complication and the need for understanding exactly what it is you're doing. With Alexa, you get a ready to transcode log format file that doesn't require you to change or understand anything, which eliminates complication, opinions, and mistakes. It also can be displayed directly in its native format on any standard monitor. And it doesn't require any proprietary hardware to play or transcode at full speed.

It's the simplicity, not the "edit readiness" or lack of it.
Click to expand...

isnt the alexa soon capable to record to DNxHD?
but i see it too, transcoding on the prores files, although not always.
transcoding prores files is doable with 8core macpros. with epic everybody without a rocket (and i love my rocket) has to wait a very long time.
 
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