Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

23.98 or 29.97 or 25??

Savva Svet

Savva Svet

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
171
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Brooklyn
Hey Guys,

I'm shooting a video loop on the NASDAQ tower in Times Square for a client (bank in Amersterdam) later today (on the scarlet). I've been trying to reach out to them to find out what frame rate they want the project to be shot in, no answer from them yet. Being that they're located in Europe, I was going to go for 25fps. But they mentioned they might use this footage for some of their films, and they will definitely be posting it online for social media. Does that change in what frame rate I should should it in? Am I safe sticking with 25fps and giving them the argument, you guys are located in Europe, if anything does arise...?
 
It all depends on their Digital Signage tech.

Im betting its computer based so it dont really matter.

From my experience we do everything in 29.97 broadcast NTSC here.

But Ive thrown all kinds of frame rates to our system (Coolsign Networks).

Other vendors such as Clear Networks and Christie systems are computer based as well so frame rates are not that big of a deal.

However dont quote on me that, Ive ran into some strict systems out there.
 
Savva Svet said:
Hey Guys,

I'm shooting a video loop on the NASDAQ tower in Times Square for a client (bank in Amersterdam) later today (on the scarlet). I've been trying to reach out to them to find out what frame rate they want the project to be shot in, no answer from them yet. Being that they're located in Europe, I was going to go for 25fps. But they mentioned they might use this footage for some of their films, and they will definitely be posting it online for social media. Does that change in what frame rate I should should it in? Am I safe sticking with 25fps and giving them the argument, you guys are located in Europe, if anything does arise...?
Click to expand...

I would say you're much safer if you just ask them what they want.
 
I Googled the Nasdaq Tower Digital Signage and the name Branded Cities came up.

Here is a link on the news about using 4K tech.
 
Shoot in whatever YOU want. if they dont need to keep audio sync and if they dont mind the shot changing length A BIT. Then they can use a frame for a frame and be done with it.
 
Savva Svet said:
Hey Guys,

I'm shooting a video loop on the NASDAQ tower in Times Square for a client (bank in Amersterdam) later today (on the scarlet). I've been trying to reach out to them to find out what frame rate they want the project to be shot in, no answer from them yet. Being that they're located in Europe, I was going to go for 25fps. But they mentioned they might use this footage for some of their films, and they will definitely be posting it online for social media. Does that change in what frame rate I should should it in? Am I safe sticking with 25fps and giving them the argument, you guys are located in Europe, if anything does arise...?
Click to expand...

It depends on what means "for some of their films". I bet they shoot their films in 25p (or 50i). Ask them again.

Pat
 
You can not shoot 25p in the states, especially around times square. all lights will flicker as the US got their electricity that feeds all lights in 60hz. So if your client is in europe and they want 25p source then I recommend you to set the camera in 25p project frame rate and then shoot the clip in offspeed 23.97p that way you get away from flicker and you have your deliverable format straight in camera.... now if you need sync then I would set project frame rate to 23.97p as well and then reformat in post to 25p and stretch the audio to fit.

The difference in US / European frame rate standards has very little to do with camera and screen standards but are very much due to 50hz and 60hz electricity / avoiding flicker when shooting.


So simply put 23.97p can easily be played back as 25p and converted also to NTSC... and most important all those lights around times square will atleast flicker less. :)

No one in Europe shoot/broadcast in 50i except for sports events and such. all advertising is broadcasted in 25p but if shot in the states then yes, it needs to be working with 60hz when captured.
 
What Björn said is correct. If you are shooting light / video screen sources then shoot at whatever frame rate and shutter speed results in no flicker and then fix it up later if needs be.

The most important thing is to get a usable image, converting from one rate to another is done all the time.
 
As always Bjorn is on the mark. Get the image captured to the best of your ability.
 
Björn Benckert said:
You can not shoot 25p in the states, especially around times square. all lights will flicker as the US got their electricity that feeds all lights in 60hz. So if your client is in europe and they want 25p source then I recommend you to set the camera in 25p project frame rate and then shoot the clip in offspeed 23.97p that way you get away from flicker and you have your deliverable format straight in camera.... now if you need sync then I would set project frame rate to 23.97p as well and then reformat in post to 25p and stretch the audio to fit.

The difference in US / European frame rate standards has very little to do with camera and screen standards but are very much due to 50hz and 60hz electricity / avoiding flicker when shooting.


So simply put 23.97p can easily be played back as 25p and converted also to NTSC... and most important all those lights around times square will atleast flicker less. :)

No one in Europe shoot/broadcast in 50i except for sports events and such. all advertising is broadcasted in 25p but if shot in the states then yes, it needs to be working with 60hz when captured.
Click to expand...


There is no relation between project frame rate and flickers!!!

The problem is the SHUTTER SPEED!!! You can have a 25P project rate and an 60hz (or what ever) shutter speed = NO FLICKER!

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
There is no relation between project frame rate and flickers!!!

The problem is the SHUTTER SPEED!!! You can have a 25P project rate and an 60hz (or what ever) shutter speed = NO FLICKER!

Pat
Click to expand...

Well yes, but some might say that they don't want the electric hz to control their shutter speed. A lot of DP's prefer 180 deg shutter and / or shoot at what ever shutter speed they like, to do so you need to be in phase with the electric Hz, and in the US that is 120v 60hz, no?
 
For those that might be interested...client responded to me 20 minutes before shooting, that they wanted it at 25fps...and there was some slight flickering.

But after reading Bjorn's comment (which I wish I would have read earlier) I would have went that route, and I'm sure it would have worked just fine.

But thanks again for all the help.
 
Good lord serves me right for not reading the post right :(

I thought the question was playing footage off the Nasdaq Tower.

Did not read that you were shooting it.

Better start using reading glasses :)
 
Björn Benckert said:
Well yes, but some might say that they don't want the electric hz to control their shutter speed. A lot of DP's prefer 180 deg shutter and / or shoot at what ever shutter speed they like, to do so you need to be in phase with the electric Hz, and in the US that is 120v 60hz, no?
Click to expand...

Just shoot 1/60 shutter speed instead of 1/50... You won't see "much" difference. Dimmed Led light have "off speed" frequencies that can be a problem even when shooting in the right Hz frequencies of the country.

Pat
 
Since were on this topic, I shot this using 23.976@4K 1/48.

What could I have done to avoid this?

I've shot a few live shows (LEDs and old Pars) and for some reason this venue gave me fits.
 
Dimmed Led lights are a pain...! You could :

- either try to match the off speed of the dimmed light fine tuning the shutter speed but usually it doesn't work as dimming level will change the frequencies of the strobe.
- use a slower shutter speed to diminish the strobing artefact (the eye is close to 1/25th ;-) ) but this will give you a blured motion.
- change the lamps of the studio ;-)

Pat

PS: Where you shooting at shutter speed matching the 1/60, 1/50? This could be the first issue...
 
Thanks Patrick.

It was a quick fun and gun favor for the band, I didn't get a chance to play with shutter speed.

That's the problem (with me and my eye sight) with using the 5" touch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top