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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

2012: The Year of 4K

Wow, this quick reply thing is really contradictory after being up all night ;)
 
Red Ray isn't a storage device, it will read R3d files from whatever media you attach to it (CF, SSD, HDD,CD, DVD, etc.) and display the output on whatever projector or display you attach. The Mbps throughput is determined when the R3D file is created/encoded.

Marc Wielage said:
Speaking of which, have you guys publicly stated what the data capacity of Red Ray is? Just a GB capacity, plus a Mbps throughput? I'm honestly curious where you're at there.
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Todd T said:
Red Ray isn't a storage device, it will read R3d files from whatever media you attach to it (CF, SSD, HDD,CD, DVD, etc.) and display the output on whatever projector or display you attach. The Mbps throughput is determined when the R3D file is created/encoded.
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I would contend that there's really no way to know exactly what it is and what it isn't until it actually exists as an actual product. And since it's already been two years since it was announced (or is it three? I'm not sure anymore) I stopped holding my breath a long, long time ago. And I also stopped trying to guess whether it would ultimately involve optical media, magnetic media, solid state media, or media of any physical sort at all.
 
But you can M. There should be a patent out there by now, particularly because the release timeframe has obviously been extended. I have asked where the patent is on a thread I have posted red ray, and as Red did nit reply to say there is no patent, or it is nit out yet, we can assume that it is, maybe buried under some unfamiliar names and businesses names. It may well be several, it maybe based on licensung a number of other patents, with their own patents gluing things.

Even without this, the more refine you become the less avenues there generally are for increasing performance, anybody with a sound mind, skill and a sound knowledge should be able to work out what it maybe, and even patent it before. But most people can't see what is before them. I generally am obscure and don't say much in case people work out where I went design wise, but the reality is most people are too dumb to figure it out even if I was not obscure. I sit and regularly see not just the path ahead but the map of the terrain, the mechanisms of the solutions and the problems. I mapped out the future compression terrain years ago and still am a little, and there are a number of improvements but a fewer high yield paths left. The possibilities come down to a handful for true high yield performance, and not many people are that good to get far down those track, and I am not going to tell here and help them fill in the gaps, I want to make my own money. If however, they were donating most of the profit to charity and social improvements, I would help them, because that is what I want to make money to do as well.

I can also vouch, that virtually everybody that is not well financed to afford present products, are wasting their time waiting for pre-announced products that could eventually take years (however, redray should be around the corner by now). Buy what they have or have announced, or don't bother holding your breadth.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
But you can M. There should be a patent out there by now, particularly because the release timeframe has obviously been extended. I have asked where the patent is on a thread I have posted red ray, and as Red did nit reply to say there is no patent, or it is nit out yet, we can assume that it is, maybe buried under some unfamiliar names and businesses names. It may well be several, it maybe based on licensung a number of other patents, with their own patents gluing things.
Click to expand...

Patents describe devices both real and imagined. You can patent things that don't exist, and many patents cover such things. Filing for and/or receiving a patent has absolutely nothing to do with actually building anything. Products that are derived from such patents sometimes have similar features to those described. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're completely revised prior to actual implementation.

So, I reiterate: there's no way to know exactly what a product is going to be until there actually is one.

I generally am obscure and don't say much in case people work out where I went design wise, but the reality is most people are too dumb to figure it out even if I was not obscure. I sit and regularly see not just the path ahead but the map of the terrain, the mechanisms of the solutions and the problems. I mapped out the future compression terrain years ago and still am a little, and there are a number of improvements but a fewer high yield paths left. The possibilities come down to a handful for true high yield performance, and not many people are that good to get far down those track, and I am not going to tell here and help them fill in the gaps, I want to make my own money. If however, they were donating most of the profit to charity and social improvements, I would help them, because that is what I want to make money to do as well.
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I's nice to know that compared to you I'm clearly intellectually inferior. Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes5:
 
M Most said:
Patents describe devices both real and imagined. You can patent things that don't exist, and many patents cover such things. Filing for and/or receiving a patent has absolutely nothing to do with actually building anything. Products that are derived from such patents sometimes have similar features to those described. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're completely revised prior to actual implementation.

So, I reiterate: there's no way to know exactly what a product is going to be until there actually is one.
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I'm a bit confused by your answer, building something has everything to do with patenting (the opposite way around), and while it may not reveal business stratergy or unpatentable aspects, it shokd definitely reveal unique patentable aspects that should give the direction of the technolology aspect here (which undelying compression technique what enhancements, which is what we are talking about as Red have talked hardware player, online and storage media use, so what siginifcant left is there to know, and he come you don't use a real name).

I's nice to know that compared to you I'm clearly intellectually inferior. Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes5:
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You take things to personally M ;) , compared to most people, just a generalization, have you seen house yet, just a cynical sarcastic loser version of me :), If I wanted to be really superior it would be far less gentle and far more obviouse and blunt (and you have not seen that virtually anywhere here from me, though there have been the rare dubious person I have had to address to get them to back off). However, it pays to know how to pick your battles (the ones where you are already likely right). I am getting cynical of stuff around here though, sorry about that, but everything is subject too not working through, unfortunate fact in business that really cynical people call vapor ware, as if products were all hot air talk and never underwent development, these are hole in the head cynics/skeptics, really dumb (like most skeptical cynics), morally inferior breeds of intellectualism (but we all get some of that sometimes maybe).

But the truth is some if these things should have cone through, and even earlier for the ones that will. You do realise that not one of the truly technology revolutionary products have come through, except maybe a camera, a asci design and a sensor chip, none of which are that remarkable or ahead of what others have or should be able to do, outside of market impact. Redray maybe that product which does, cheap Scarlet was another on market side, Laser projector, depends on his it works, I have come up with over 100 laser projector designs myself, including the ultimate that they could still use in a thousand years (if I can get to release it).

You'll be happy to know, that I think that you are defintely superior to me in some way, even the "bum" so to speak, in the street is. Now, that is intellectualusm ;) .
 
Just for shits and giggles, I compiled a list of known 4K works that would launch the inevitable 4K media format, whatever the heck it will be...


Ocean's Thirteen
Catwoman
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo (Fincher)
Poseidon
I Love You Beth Cooper
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Spider-Man 3
Priest
Reach For Me (Dalsa Origin's first film and the first 4K end-to-end feature)
Harry Potter & The Goblet of Fire
Charlie & The Chocolate Factory
Angels & Demons
Eat, Pray, Love
Water For Elephants
Blood Diamond
The Fountain
Lucky You
The DaVinci Code
Family Stone
Stealth
Spider-Man 2
The Next Three Days
The Soloist
Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem
Across The Universe
The Black Dahlia
Robin Hood (2010)
Essential Killing
No Country For Old Men
The Family Stone
The Graves
True Grit (2010)
Doubt
Love And Other Drugs
The Bounty Hunter (Gerard Butler flick that nobody here will admit to seeing)
Breathing
Defiance
The Green Hornet
The Other Guys
Salt
A Serious Man
War Horse
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Proud American
The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford
The Karate Kid (2010)
30 Minutes Or Less
The Adjustment Bureau
Straw Dogs (2011)
Che
My Blueberry Nights
The Fall
The Amazing Spider-Man (2012) 4K-2D/2K-3D
Bright Star
Southland Tales
Inception
Cheri
How Do You Know?
Revolutionary Road
The Tourist
Iron Man 2
Katyn (Polish Film)
Things I Don't Understand
Rent (2005 adaptation of the musical)
Samsara
Baraka
Casanova (2005 movie with Heath Ledger)
The Omen (2005)
Sector 7 (Korean horror film)
The Other Side
Evan Almighty
James Cameron's Titanic (4K Re-master)
Patton (Restoration)
The Bridge On The River Kwai (Restoration)
The Sand Pebbles (Restoration)
Gone With The Wind (Restoration)
Cleopatra (50th Anniversary Restoration)
Blade Runner (The Final Cut/Director's Cut Restoration)
Alien (Restoration)
Aliens (Restoration)
Taxi Driver (Restoration)
Star Trek: The Next Generation (Restoration)
Apocalypse Now (Restoration)
The Godfather Trilogy (Restoration)

Feel free to let me know if there are any that I missed. I put together this list based on IMDB data and information from post-production magazines and colorist resumes.
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
I strongly think that 98% of those movies were finished and mastered @2k and not 4K...

g
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Well, if you think any of them are incorrect, state which ones and provide proof. The list I have given was based on factual information available on the Internet from industry sources and not pulled out of my ass.
 
L. Langer said:
Just for shits and giggles, I compiled a list of known 4K works that would launch the inevitable 4K media format, whatever the heck it will be...
Click to expand...

That's a nice list.

However, most of those movies had their effects done at 2K.

They would have to be re-done at 4K for a true 4K release. Not fun.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
That's a nice list.

However, most of those movies had their effects done at 2K.

They would have to be re-done at 4K for a true 4K release. Not fun.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

That's true with most movies but it is irrelevant. The list I posted is of films that have 4K DIs, regardless of whatever else applies.
 
Bruce Allen said:
So if the VFX house delivered at 2K and they blew it up to 4K in the DI and printed to film, you count that as a "4K movie" ??

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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That's just the way things work with VFX Bruce. It's the technology vs time and cost of product game. Would I prefer 4K VFX? Sure. Do I or most people who watch movies give a shit if they did it at 2K and plopped it in a 4K DI? No, not really. Most VFX shots aren't Transformers-type stuff requiring significant graphic detail so it doesn't really matter as long as it looks good enough to watch and doesn't pull you out of the movie watching experience by being a serious distraction.
 
L. Langer said:
That's just the way things work with VFX Bruce. It's the technology vs time and cost of product game. Would I prefer 4K VFX? Sure. Do I or most people who watch movies give a shit if they did it at 2K and plopped it in a 4K DI? No, not really. Most VFX shots aren't Transformers-type stuff requiring significant graphic detail so it doesn't really matter as long as it looks good enough to watch and doesn't pull you out of the movie watching experience by being a serious distraction.
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If you're saying that dropping down to upscaled 2K for the VFX shots isn't a distraction... Why the hell am I paying for a 4K movie and not just upscaling my BluRay?

If the "4K movie" brand wants to be credible... VFX shots need to be significantly sharper than on Blu Ray.

Nearly 1000 VFX shots in Social Network were done at 2K.

I already have the Blu-Ray.

If you're trying to sell me a 4K version and the movie gets soft every time we have the twins in the shot... I'm going to ask for my money back!

And if there is no difference between the 4K and 2K shots across the whole film... I'm also going to ask for my money back!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Like I said Bruce, it is what it is. Until technology, manpower, and hardware costs align to bring rapid turnaround of quality high-resolution VFX work, you have no choice but to accept it or tell Hollywood to outsource everything to India and Asia, where they can do 4K or higher VFX quickly, for less money with their setups.
 
L. Langer said:
Just for shits and giggles, I compiled a list of known 4K works that would launch the inevitable 4K media format, whatever the heck it will be...


Ocean's Thirteen
Catwoman
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo (Fincher)
Poseidon
I Love You Beth Cooper
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Spider-Man 3
Priest
Reach For Me (Dalsa Origin's first film and the first 4K end-to-end feature)
Harry Potter & The Goblet of Fire
Charlie & The Chocolate Factory
Angels & Demons
Eat, Pray, Love
Water For Elephants
Blood Diamond
The Fountain
Lucky You
The DaVinci Code
Family Stone
Stealth
Spider-Man 2
The Next Three Days
The Soloist
Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem
Across The Universe
The Black Dahlia
Robin Hood (2010)
Essential Killing
No Country For Old Men
The Family Stone
The Graves
True Grit (2010)
Doubt
Love And Other Drugs
The Bounty Hunter (Gerard Butler flick that nobody here will admit to seeing)
Breathing
Defiance
The Green Hornet
The Other Guys
Salt
A Serious Man
War Horse
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Proud American
The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford
The Karate Kid (2010)
30 Minutes Or Less
The Adjustment Bureau
Straw Dogs (2011)
Che
My Blueberry Nights
The Fall
The Amazing Spider-Man (2012) 4K-2D/2K-3D
Bright Star
Southland Tales
Inception
Cheri
How Do You Know?
Revolutionary Road
The Tourist
Iron Man 2
Katyn (Polish Film)
Things I Don't Understand
Rent (2005 adaptation of the musical)
Samsara
Baraka
Casanova (2005 movie with Heath Ledger)
The Omen (2005)
Sector 7 (Korean horror film)
The Other Side
Evan Almighty
James Cameron's Titanic (4K Re-master)
Patton (Restoration)
The Bridge On The River Kwai (Restoration)
The Sand Pebbles (Restoration)
Gone With The Wind (Restoration)
Cleopatra (50th Anniversary Restoration)
Blade Runner (The Final Cut/Director's Cut Restoration)
Alien (Restoration)
Aliens (Restoration)
Taxi Driver (Restoration)
Star Trek: The Next Generation (Restoration)
Apocalypse Now (Restoration)
The Godfather Trilogy (Restoration)

Feel free to let me know if there are any that I missed. I put together this list based on IMDB data and information from post-production magazines and colorist resumes.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lit for this. Which ones are fall Red, or where Red was the primary camera?
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
I strongly think that 98% of those movies were finished and mastered @2k and not 4K...

g
Click to expand...

Maybe the cheap option, is where there has been an upgrade in the production workflow software from 2k to 4k, and particularly if it is automated render, is to rerun it through the software from 4k footage input to 4k output, for each program, to end up with the same files/names in 4k for each orogram. down stream. If any footage or effects are in 2k, upscale them (even through something like the old Intel upscaling platform that will restore some higher resolution detail then the resolution shot in, used to be 100 hours of processing per frame neatly ten years ago). If anybody wants all native 4k, they can pay for the conversion of a special 4k print. If the work flow software is not set up to do this all ready, then why not! It will be crucial to have this for 4k and 8k dragon footage :)

To be real, if you have a most all 4k old film, with a little upscaled 2k, it does not matter so much,
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Thanks a lit for this. Which ones are fall Red, or where Red was the primary camera?
Click to expand...


The vast majority of the listed titles were shot on film. I'm not sure that they all went through a 4K DI process, though. And pictures like Spider Man 2 were about 75% or more VFX shots - all done at 2K.
 
Benjamin Buttons (Great looking movie BTW) was shot on the Viper, a 2K/1080P camera, so no going back to the negative there for 4K.
Mike, Spiderman 2 (Or maybe 3) was one of the first films to actually do the VFX at 4K, it's the movie that convinced most producers to stick to 2K :emote_head_explode:
 
Evin Grant said:
Benjamin Buttons (Great looking movie BTW) was shot on the Viper, a 2K/1080P camera, so no going back to the negative there for 4K.
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It was film, Sony 1080p, and Viper 2K. Info I pulled straight from WB MPI (who did the DI) for the list says they did the DI at 4K but that might be an error on their part though I couldn't find anything to confirm what resolution the DI was done at despite common sense suggesting 2K given the use of digital video for most of the movie.
 
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