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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

18mm RPP owners, do not use it on film cameras .

I dont want to hit on all of the ones that got those RPP.s but i own an Arri 435 Extreme, and a RED one as well, and i have at least 400.000 invested in pristine glass. i believe in RED and i love that camera. but you have to be very unexperienced or out of your mind to invest your MONEY on a lens that you don't even know who manufactures it. now you pay the consequences besides loosing thousands of jobs because serious jobs wont EVER shoot on anything different than top glass. Please don't take this personally life gives us lessons. and this should be one.
 
I think you lost me there Gustavo.. what exactly are you saying?
 
Gustavo Penna said:
I dont want to hit on all of the ones that got those RPP.s but i own an Arri 435 Extreme, and a RED one as well, and i have at least 400.000 invested in pristine glass. i believe in RED and i love that camera. but you have to be very unexperienced or out of your mind to invest your MONEY on a lens that you don't even know who manufactures it. now you pay the consequences besides loosing thousands of jobs because serious jobs wont EVER shoot on anything different than top glass. Please don't take this personally life gives us lessons. and this should be one.
Click to expand...

Dont tale this the wrong way, but I bought Red lenses for the Red camera,
not for a 435 or any other camera and my clients are quite happy with the results.
 
Price is no longer a relevant metric when judging the performance of high-end optics. The Red Pro Primes pricing structure exists as a function of high volume production and innovations in manufacturing technology. The ability of the lenses to resolve superior images is not impacted by the manufacturing process, provided the component parts meet the specific design goals and engineering specs. It is far more accurate to suggest that high quality lenses have been historically manufactured at pricing that is artificially inflated. Pricing on all glass is facing market correction.
 
Jannard said:
We have made it clear from day one that the 18mm was a digital design. I think you even have to confirm that you understand this before you can purchase one.
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Jim, was it it clear from day one of the 18mm or from day one of the rest of the set? I think your customers are disappointed because they bought a set that works on film camera and then the standard changed with the complimentary lens. When they bought the first 5 lens knowing they work on film their assumption was that the 18mm will work too.
However, you win because you have the golden phrase: ""Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
And don't get me wrong, I have two Reds and the RPP beside Cooke S4, Leicas, Angenieux and others, going for the upgrade etc.
 
The entire RED lens set was designed specifically for the RED camera. This includes the optical design, specific coatings, and transmission properties.. it was all tuned to our camera. All our products share the same design philosophy, they are designed for our the RED system. The fact that some lenses work on film cameras was just a side bonus.

To make the 18mm work on shutter based cameras it would of reduced the performance and increased the size, so it was an easy decision.
 
Gustavo Penna said:
I dont want to hit on all of the ones that got those RPP.s but i own an Arri 435 Extreme, and a RED one as well, and i have at least 400.000 invested in pristine glass. i believe in RED and i love that camera. but you have to be very unexperienced or out of your mind to invest your MONEY on a lens that you don't even know who manufactures it. now you pay the consequences besides loosing thousands of jobs because serious jobs wont EVER shoot on anything different than top glass. Please don't take this personally life gives us lessons. and this should be one.
Click to expand...

Nice try Gustavo- They are designed by RED and made in JAPAN. Says on the box... and then there is the projector tests, and of course using mine every week with PAYING Clients...

Guess Im REALLY out of my mind wanting to buy a second set...
 
Gustavo Penna said:
I dont want to hit on all of the ones that got those RPP.s but i own an Arri 435 Extreme, and a RED one as well, and i have at least 400.000 invested in pristine glass. i believe in RED and i love that camera. but you have to be very unexperienced or out of your mind to invest your MONEY on a lens that you don't even know who manufactures it.
Click to expand...
:out:


So how do you feel about all the new "digital only" glass from Angenieux and Fujinon? Would you not invest any money there?

Why is it difficult for people to accept that a new player in the industry, such as RED, could potentially design their own very good lens products? The lenses were designed to work best with the RED One and other upcoming digital camera systems. Well, duh... What a revelation there. <heavy sarcasm, in case you didn't notice>

I have close to $30K invested in my RED Primes, as I own all of them, 18 through 300. And you know what... They have already ROI'd themselves and are making money every time they come out of the case. I've had the 300 for over a year, RPP's since last June, got the 18mm a few weeks ago...

Funny... They're one of the few things I invested in in 2009 that actually made money. They're about the only thing that's making money around here so far in 2010. Maybe I should buy a second set just for me and leave my current set to the rental crowd.

But... I don't make my money by renting out gear. All factors considered, I lost money on rentals in '09. I really have to wonder why I bother with it. I think I do it because I'm a sucker for helping out the local indie film guys. I don't shoot narrative cinema, so I guess that's my way to get a little dose of that. I can rent out the gear, occasionally offer my services as AC or DIT and hang out on set.

The RPP's are awesome. Most people see that if they just give them a chance and quit trying to put so much stock into where they come from or why they are or are not made by. I also think many people need to take a closer look at where other lenses come from if it's so important for them to know where the RPP's originate. ...Just sayin'

Edit> I also have to tip my hat to Matthew Duclos and his PL-converted Tokina 11-16. That little jewel of a lens compliments the RPP set perfectly and made it possible for me to rent the RPP set in a lot of situations that would have been otherwise impossible without a lens wider than 25mm. It has become one of my all-time favorite lenses.
 
Gustavo Penna said:
you have to be very unexperienced or out of your mind to invest your MONEY on a lens that you don't even know who manufactures it.
Click to expand...

Gustavo,

Since I have ordered the 18mm, I must be "out of my mind" then.

However, I will not be placing a deposit for the hat you're wearing ... regardless of who makes it. That would just be plain old crazy. :w00t:

Does anyone know if the 18mm Red Pro Prime will work on a Letus Ultimate?
 
Ok guys.
i really want to apologize if i hurt you or your feelings.
Im really sorry.

You'll find out one day that Stunning Images are way more than just ULTRASHARP lens or 4 K cameras.

Maybe thats just what none of the people on this tread are not understanding. 4 K camera Plus VERY sharp lens Equals Images so far away from what old fashion cinema is, that they make all you shot with it, look like ESPN or CNN. on Full HD. thats not artistic whatsoever.
Iv'e seen DP's Get a combination of Red 1 + Master-primes + Promist or any kind of softening filters. and not been pleased with the results.
The Same DP's Tried Red 1 + Old super Hi speeds, and they where, way happier with the results. none of us was looking for UltraSharp Images.
If Sharpness where every single Top cinematographers goal. they would all shoot on Master primes. However, Cook S4's Go out 7 to 1 more often than Master primes on rental houses.and they sell 12 to 1 more than masters. The waiting list On Cooks either S4's or S5's is about a year and a half. If you go to get the Master primes tomorrow, they will be there for immediate delivery.

again i'm sorry if i hurt anyone. i'm glad you guys stand by you decision and investment. Peace. lets move on. and shoot.
 
two years ago red was a scam--delivered
one year ago some people said you cant shoot seriously on a red--we saw winter bone, district 9 and secret eye.
now you are telling people cant shoot with RPPs, lets see what happens in a year.

greerings from a

cnn and espn watcher
 
As to cooke's vs Masters - I think it's more of local fashions than anything else.

Like'em both.
Like the RPP's too
Really love ooolds glass on RED

hey - this is sorta a corses for horses subject...
 
cooke vs master is definitly a local thing, here is the ratio 1:10 towards master primes...i like cookes more, guess its a psychological thing, after cc all look the same hehe
 
I think it also has to do with post versus on set looks. today you can do most any look from any good starting point, where as it was get the look on set before.

Since I edit as well I know what can be done in post so I like to have as sharp and clean image to start with as I can, just different ways of working.
 
Looks done in post for me. With a nice clean starting image, I can replicate most any optical / lens effect.

For me it's not about sharpness, or not completely. It's about detail and the ability to resolve that detail. The sensor in my RED One can't be used to its fullest potential with a set of super speeds shot wider than about T3. Personally, I almost never add any sharpening to RED footage. I gain more than enough sharpening when the footage is downsampled to 2K/1080p for delivery.

To say something is not artistic is rather silly.... If what you shoot with a set of modern primes with a digital camera, such as a RED One, looks like it was shot with an HD camera for ESPN, then you are probably doing something wrong. Gustavo, my feelings are not hurt, you're just not making a whole lot of sense here. It's obvious you prefer vintage glass and film as well. I understand and respect that. But for the reasons you discount the RPP's, you are also discounting the Ultra and Master Primes as well as most any other modern lens offering out there.

Personally, I love both Master Primes and Cooke S4's. I have not had the opportunity to see, let alone try, the new Cooke S5's yet. I also love the RPP's and think they fall somewhere between the Ultra Primes and S4's in many respects.
 
Bob Rudis said:
Has anyone tried the 18mm on the Pro35 adaptor?
Click to expand...

Bob just brought over his 18mm and I checked with some calipers. Just under 18mm protrusion at full width. Which means that it will clear the Pro35 no problem. Should clear the Letus but I have not checked it at this point.
 
Just got off the phone with Bob... Mitch, you beat me to it.
Cheers,
Harry
 
It should work on an Arri 3. We've put up 9mm lenses with massive back ends and they fit. It would not however fit on a 535 or movicam (the 9mm). Be careful first surface mirrors are unforgiving. To throw in my two cents about the lens issue and sharpness...Lenses, like film stocks, and digital systems impart a certain aesthetic to the look of the project. In larger budget projects we get to select a set of lenses which are appropriate to the overall look of the project. Since it's not a perfect world selecting lenses with the widest possible application is where we often end up. That being said, it is really the person using the lenses that should decide what works for them. Cleary, Gustavo likes old glass :) . Ultimately it's what we prefer. If someday I'm shooting something where I find a magnifying glass taped to an empty roll of toilet paper and then held over the mount creates the look I want, then that's what I'm gonna do. I'll wrap the roll in photo black tape to make it look professional though ;)
 
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Philip Allister Anderson said:
It should work on an Arri 3. We've put up 9mm lenses with massive back ends and they fit. It would not however fit on a 535 or movicam (the 9mm). Be careful first surface mirrors are unforgiving.
Click to expand...

Don't make this assumption. The RED 18mm was the full 54mm diameter for its full depth. Many lenses extend further than this, but at a smaller diameter. Spinning mirrors are mounted at a 45 degree angle, so the lenses are designed as cone as they protrude behind the mount in order to avoid the mirror. An 11mm full diameter protrubance is common, but before checking I would not assume any camera could accept 18mm of full diameter protrubance.
 
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