Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

13th responses here...

Chris Kenny said:
$7000 doesn't buy you a camera. It buys you a module with a sensor and some processing electronics. You still need to add a control mechanism, I/O module, lens mount and recording module to have the same functionality built into the Red One body. The prices on all of that haven't been announced yet.
Click to expand...

good point actually.
 
Ethan Cooper said:
It's tough. If I were to spend $20K on a camera system I'd like the ability to overcrank as well, but Red does have to do something to differentiate the product lines. We'll see if I feel the same way when I start loading up my shopping cart online in a year or so.
Click to expand...

Why not make Scarlet 35mm 50fps? Then it's only half of what Epic can do, framerate wise. I can tell you right now that overcranking is going to become the #1 issue for potential Scarlet owners. It's absolutely vital.
 
Tom said:
The lack of overcranking is a huge oversight (or a deliberate business decision to "dumb it down"?
Click to expand...
As Jim has been forced to point out several times, there is no intentional "dumbing down" or "crippling" of the cameras for business reasons. These cameras all have very large sensors, and dealing with the massive amounts of data coming through is an enormous task. Keep in mind that it's not just the recorded image which needs to be dealt with, but also video preview signals and onboard compression which add into the equation. Every single frame per second you demand from your system requires a lot more processing power from the brain.

It certainly seems that like-spec'd Scarlet and Epic models will use the same sensor chips. That is, you'll find the same sensor in a s35 scarlet as the s35 Epic and likewise with the FF35 versions. But what you're paying for above that base, then, is much beefier electronic guts and routing programs to handle extremely high fps, scaling, ramping, and lapsing options you get with the Epic. It's not an easy chore. Just like you'd pay a considerable premium for the absolute fastest CPU on the computer market, you're going to have to shell out for the fastest brain possible if you want 6K at 100fps that scales to 1080 for output on the fly. What's cool is that if you don't need all of that, and primarily shoot 24p but want the gorgeous resolution and dynamic range that the new sensors yield, RED is offering a more simple approach with Scarlet that cuts out the CPU-taxing features and gives it to you for a fraction of the cost. How wonderful is that?
 
Tom said:
I can tell you right now that overcranking is going to become the #1 issue for potential Scarlet owners. It's absolutely vital.
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

I will keep my Mitchell I think:glare:

Stephen
 
My girlfriend and me were wondering if it's just a mistake or we aren't able to figure out the perspective.
how you are able to look through the viewfinders and still be able to hold the camera on your shoulders?

page15.jpg


by the way i haven't read the whole 200 pages, so i am not sure, if it has been asked before ;-)
 
Häakon said:
As Jim has been forced to point out several times, there is no intentional "dumbing down" or "crippling" of the cameras for business reasons. These cameras all have very large chips, and dealing with the massive amounts of data coming through is an enormous task. Keep in mind that it's not the recorded image which needs to be dealt with, but also video preview signals and onboard compression which add into the equation. Every single frame per second you demand from your system requires a lot more processing power from the brain.

It certainly seems that like-spec'd Scarlet and Epic models will use the same sensor chips. That is, you'll find the same sensor in a s35 scarlet as the s35 Epic and likewise with the FF35 versions. But what you're paying for above that base, then, is much beefier electronic guts and routing programs to handle extremely high fps, scaling, ramping, and lapsing options you get with the Epic. It's not an easy chore. Just like you'd pay a considerable premium for the absolute fastest CPU on the computer market, you're going to have to shell out for the fastest brain possible if you want 6K at 100fps that scales to 1080 for output on the fly. What's cool is that if you don't need all of that, and primarily shoot 24p but want the gorgeous resolution and dynamic range that the new sensors yield, RED is offering a more simple approach with Scarlet that cuts out the CPU-taxing features and gives it to you for a fraction of the cost. How wonderful is that?
Click to expand...

I understand that. Then why not allow us to pay another couple thousand dollars more for beefy enough components to shoot 48 or 60fps on Scarlet 35mm? For the price of a decked-out Scarlet, I could literally buy a new Jeep Wrangler. For that kind of investment, people are going to want at least some basic overcranking ability, IMO.
 
fightordie said:
So heres to hoping for a a really affordable REDone sensor upgrade and instantaneous boot times.
Click to expand...
I'm concerned about this as well. A new sensor for the RED ONE would be great, but if the difference between a Scarlet Monstro and an upgraded RED ONE Monstro is 60 seconds of bootup time, I would honestly forego the higher fps options in favor of the lighter, faster, and next-gen Scarlet. Then again, I'm just one guy with one opinion. :)
 
Tom said:
I understand that. Then why not allow us to pay another couple thousand dollars more for beefy enough components to shoot 48 or 60fps on Scarlet 35mm? For the price of a decked-out Scarlet, I could literally buy a new Jeep Wrangler. For that kind of investment, people are going to want at least some basic overcranking ability, IMO.
Click to expand...
I think the approach is that the Scarlet body has to work all the way down the product line. The FF35 Scarlet, for example, has the same housing and internal guts as the 2/3" Scarlet. If they start beefing up the Scarlet too much, they're not going to be able to offer a $2,500 option. For those who need the horsepower of a faster processing unit, Epic is the option they have given us. And if you can't afford an Epic, you can get a RED ONE with an upgraded sensor and still maintain the fps options you desire at a lower cost. I think all of these are very reasonable offerings.
 
It should also be noted that we don't yet know what the crop/overcrank offerings are going to be in Scarlet. The most Jim has said is that the camera will have "limited options compared to the RED ONE and Epic." Let's not forget that the RED ONE has no overcranking ability in 4K but people are just fine with the fact that they can get it in the 2K or 3K modes. If Scarlet proves to offer similar functionality (albeit with fewer selectable options), then that gives Scarlet users "basic overcranking ability" like you have mentioned. If you need the whole gammut of individual frame by frame selections, ramping, timelapse, etc., then you need to get an Epic.
 
Tom said:
I understand that. Then why not allow us to pay another couple thousand dollars more for beefy enough components to shoot 48 or 60fps on Scarlet 35mm? For the price of a decked-out Scarlet, I could literally buy a new Jeep Wrangler. For that kind of investment, people are going to want at least some basic overcranking ability, IMO.
Click to expand...

All specs subject to change. And we do have a year for goodness sake. so maybe.
________
Jeep honcho history
 
I just can't imagine spending something like $25K for Scarlet 35mm and then not being able to overcrank. R1 does not overcank with the full sensor, either, as we know. Plus, I think the idea with these new DSMC cameras is to aim for 5K or 6K resolution so that projects can be finished at "True 4K," with all the benefits of downsampling.

This might just be my own personal hangup, but I think this lack of overcranking in Scarlet 35mm is a very large and glaring hole. It's easy to say, "just get Epic," but I don't think most of us have $50K or $60K just lying around right now. :)

Edit: Haakon, I just saw your post about the cropping. Yes, that might be a good option. Anything that can be offered to allow at least basic overcranking would be very much appreciated by many of us here.
 
I think we're just not understanding each other. :) My point about the RED ONE is that it can't overcrank at full res either - you have to crop to get the extra fps. Many people have been just fine with that. I believe that scarlet will offer similar functionality, even if it is limited in its scope. Therefore, you won't be spending "$25K for no ability to overcrank." You just won't be doing it in 6K and you won't have the plethora of choices that the other cameras offer.

I also think that these things are still in a lot of flux and are bound to change over the next year that the cameras are developed.
 
Advance thanks

Advance thanks

Thanks Jim for the last 24hrs of truly industry changing announcements. Its all a little too easy to take it for granted as its just one of so many amazing pics but this picture alone says it all for me

I shoot a lot of handheld on the Aaton 35 and Arricam LT this year and this looks like it would give them all a run for the money. Cant wait to take it for a spin

Not to mention that not too distant future a rig this size will be giving me To Die For MEDIUM FORMAT DOF at up to 50fps in something not much bigger than a stack of 8 mini dv tapes. (Pauses to let it sink in even more)

Thanks to all at RED it would have been a blast letting your imagination run wild

Jason
 
Häakon said:
As Jim has been forced to point out several times, there is no intentional "dumbing down" or "crippling" of the cameras for business reasons. These cameras all have very large sensors, and dealing with the massive amounts of data coming through is an enormous task. Keep in mind that it's not just the recorded image which needs to be dealt with, but also video preview signals and onboard compression which add into the equation. Every single frame per second you demand from your system requires a lot more processing power from the brain.

It certainly seems that like-spec'd Scarlet and Epic models will use the same sensor chips. That is, you'll find the same sensor in a s35 scarlet as the s35 Epic and likewise with the FF35 versions. But what you're paying for above that base, then, is much beefier electronic guts and routing programs to handle extremely high fps, scaling, ramping, and lapsing options you get with the Epic. It's not an easy chore. Just like you'd pay a considerable premium for the absolute fastest CPU on the computer market, you're going to have to shell out for the fastest brain possible if you want 6K at 100fps that scales to 1080 for output on the fly. What's cool is that if you don't need all of that, and primarily shoot 24p but want the gorgeous resolution and dynamic range that the new sensors yield, RED is offering a more simple approach with Scarlet that cuts out the CPU-taxing features and gives it to you for a fraction of the cost. How wonderful is that?
Click to expand...
Great post. This is the best explanation of the framerate differences posted here to date. I'm going to be shooting on the S35 Scarlet at 24p (23.976?) for 98% of the time. The few times I need overcranking, I'll rent an S35 Epic brain, use all my existing S35 Scarlet accessories & modules, and get 100fps for those specialty shots. Then back to S35 Scarlet for the day-to-day stuff.

If keeping the S35 Scarlet brain at $7000 requires capping the framerate at 30p, by all means, go for it.
 
Häakon said:
I think we're just not understanding each other. :) My point about the RED ONE is that it can't overcrank at full res either - you have to crop to get the extra fps. Many people have been just fine with that. I believe that scarlet will offer similar functionality, even if it is limited in its scope. Therefore, you won't be spending "$25K for no ability to overcrank." You just won't be doing it in 6K and you won't have the plethora of choices that the other cameras offer.

I also think that these things are still in a lot of flux and are bound to change over the next year that the cameras are developed.
Click to expand...

If cropping is the only way to offer overcranking for Scarlet S/FF35mm, then that might work out just fine -- as long as the cropped area is not tiny.

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on this thread that this overcranking issue is very important to many of us.
 
Tom said:
If cropping is the only way to offer overcranking for Scarlet S/FF35mm, then that might work out just fine -- as long as the cropped area is not tiny.

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on this thread that this overcranking issue is very important to many of us.
Click to expand...

Except the red one owners who want scarlet to not have those features...
There's a war brewing :)

red one owners vs scarlet owners.
Takedown 2009!

It is funny how over crank is now a must have feature when that was previously only in the domain of high speed specialty cameras like Phantom.

Tom, aren't you a timelapse guy anyway?
 
Since Jim is offering a $17K credit toward Epic, can current R1 owners just sell their R1 on ebay or whatever for $17K to rental houses looking to buy Epics en masse?

If that was an option, I really cannot see how ANYONE could bitch or moan about Scarlet being "too good."
 
Ariana said:
Except the red one owners who want scarlet to not have those features...
Click to expand...
Not that it matters, but I'm a RED ONE user who absolutely wants Scarlet to have as many features as possible. It's their next-gen system and should exhibit next-gen functionality. Jim's even given all R1 users a 12% discount on Scarlet without even having to turn in your current camera, and you're even able to upgrade your R1 sensor to Mysterium-X and Monstro levels without having to buy a new rig. How much more could they offer?

I know your post had smileys and didn't come across as overly negative, but I'm rather surprised at how much backlash there seems to be about a new model coming out with better features. Do you wish that the new Mac Book Pro has less functionality because you bought one 6 months ago and it's now "outdated?" This is the tech world, people. Something better is always around the corner.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top