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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

13 threads on CORRUPT frames in less than 2 MONTHS

You are totally right Julio. Now to add to that, I really think that avoiding a manual is a key ingredient for the break-neck pace at which Red's products are developing, and how fast they are developing as a company as well. As you point out, Reducated crew is a must in every set; unless you are dealing with those who got to that level by themselves and have been working Red jobs professionally for a long time, who sometimes are the ones Red listens to during development.

If a producer decides to hire a star to help distribution but edits off the digital negatives on a laptop every day on set... well... he he he. I am sure most would agree that's the producer's fault, not the camera company's. They either hired the wrong crew as you point out, or didn't listen to them, and pretty much all you need is the right DIT! In that case the producers didn't do their job well. If someone is a brilliant producer, they better be brilliant enough to hire the correct line producer too, or they will be to blame for the losses in my book.

Being really good at only one task means you are not fit to lead everyone. Delegate or assume responsibility. I won't work with producers like that, only smart ones for my projects; only ones that understand my limitations! as well as theirs; only ones that realize team pieces fitting together and filling all gaps properly is imperative job number one. Those are the guys that make you money time and time again; they are the ones that bring peace of mind to investors; the ones investors seek out; the ones that build successful careers without blaming inanimate objects (or getting innocent people fired, and their names tarnished).

I just don't like gear used as a scapegoat, so I keep trying to point out that just because Red does things in a different spirit, it doesn't make them worse. In my humble opinion it makes them visionaries. We are in hyperspace toward an indie world. With ludicrous pricing, user-involving firmware updates, modularity, RedCode, sensitivity, RedUser interaction, and so much more, Red is currently the break-away best option out there for the low budget range, strong contenders for large budgets (best in my book in great part due to a superior image), and with Epic they are now going to blow away the entire field for the high end, especially 3D... as we are seeing with Spiderman 4, The Hobbit, etc...

0.002
 
Hi, I've been experimenting with shooting 3K 60p and started experiencing lots of corrupted frames. Then latter version of RCX or Storm would crash playing these files. If you are lucky, then you might find the bad portion then maybe trim out the bad frames to render out without crashing. But when this happens, the bad portion affects the whole clip to play bad, so it is very frustrating to cut out the bad portion. (please be aware that these corrupted clips were corrupted on the compact flash, not from the copying procedure)

But from my previous experiences with ROCKETCINE-X (obviously you need RedRokcet), I remember ROCETCINE-X was rendering clips with bad frames without crashing, rendering the bad portion with green or black frames. So I downgraded the RedRocket driver/firmware, by using ROCKETCINE-X, I was able to render out the whole clip without crashing!

I'm suspecting the current SDK build is something to do with bad frame influencing the other portion or whole stability of the playing back after the software reads the bad portion (I usually have to restart the whole computer).

But anyhow, Rocketcine-X helped me again. I wish Rocketcine-X can have RG2 and RC2.
 
You say the corruption happened in camera but didn't the camera report the corrupted frames as it should? If it didn't I'm scared again
 
You say the corruption happened in camera but didn't the camera report the corrupted frames as it should? If it didn't I'm scared again

On that part, I'm not certain because I wasn't the one shooting. I will do my own test and monitor the drop frame each time.
 
I can confirm that there was no camera error. It just rolled as usual. Was only only when Kaku told me there was an error that I knew one existed. As Kaku stated however he was able to ingest through red rocket and was able to get around it.
 
Not frame recovery, but a way around the issue

Not frame recovery, but a way around the issue

I just encountered this issue on my thesis film. We copied the original files from the CF cards onto a hard drive. didn't mess with any programs like Redcine-x or data manager. we encountered the frame corruption after the shoot.. too late. After reading all the posts on REDUser i assume we must have let the cables get too hot, or the card reader was faulty(or rather it wasn't a "super-duper REDReader").

I stumbled upon this one:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51437&highlight=find+corrupt+frames

Mr. Ibbitson seems to have the solution.

1. open your export presets and get it ready for a tiff sequence

2. In your export settings, you have a tab called "options" if you click "use REDline (software only)" then the option for "Frame only mode", you can create a tiff sequence from your impaired clip. When it reaches your corrupt frame, it will pause, giving you the message that "REDcine-x has stopped working". if you close out this warning message (without choosing an option), the tiff sequence will continue as normal, leaving a black frame where your corrupt frame used to be.

3. if you've got After Effects, you can then do, as many people have suggested, and create an interlaced frame generated from the before and after frames and replace the black frame.(or just cut around it.. it won't crash avid anymore.)

sorry if this is obvious to any regular users of REDcine(or if there's an easier solution). This is my first time using the program, and i'm no DIT.
 
I found out the problem me and Noel were having wasn't RED issue today. Something is happening between the Lexar Firewire card reader and the built in SSD drive comes with the MacBook Pro. When R3D is copied from the Lexar to MacBook Pro's internal SSD, files often corrupt. The same condition but copying to hard disk drives, they don't corrupt. I'm using the short Firewire 800 cable came with the Lexar, also made sure to use other high quality cables, but the result was the same.
 
Theres a thing called a red drive cable attaching the sensor to a red drive.

When they go bad, the badness can be hard to spot, intermitant. I carry spares. If your footage got bad this way, you'll get a perfect copy of a corrupt file using verification software.

Visually inspecting every shot on smaller budget shoot is often unpractical, if not impossible. For that matter, even shooting on CF cards is impossible due to time/crew etc constraints.

I've given up even asking people if they want to swap drives mid shoot (not that its my job), even though it saves time at the end of the day (with regards to backing up). If they ask me if I have another drive to swap, I show them where it is. I do mention the risk of a mechanical failure, leading to footage loss, to new clients who rent from me. Its never happened (yet). I periodically check the drives for read/write errors.

I also mention the importance of unmounting disks, or booting down the camera before moving the camera, to avoid an unplanned power down if the battery comes loose, which might cause some data loss.
 
I had this problem a few months ago. Luckily no footage was lost as I checked everything back in realtime and recopied if an error was noticed. I'm 100% sure it is a copy issue, specifically with fw readers. It would be great if there was a way for a better solution as recopying takes up so much time that could be better spent on checking focus/exposure/sensor issues etc. Here is what I found out: http://digitalcinemacamerasscotland.blogspot.com/2011/04/red-dropped-frame-corruption-issue.html
 
We just blew half a day on an Actor who didn't know his lines (not complaining, just saying), .... all of his frames were "corrupt". By the 20th take he started to get it. I guess more/enough coverage is the answer.
 
We just blew half a day on an Actor who didn't know his lines (not complaining, just saying), .... all of his frames were "corrupt". By the 20th take he started to get it. I guess more/enough coverage is the answer.

Sounds like you had a "corrupted" casting director :)
 
Hello guys,

I noticed RED updated the beta build for the camera including high speed recording on 3K resolution codec bug. Some of the problems I had could have been with this issue. I also migrated to 1.8 inch SSDs and shot some long takes for live performances and so far so good.
 
Just buy the RED card reader for $250. Problem solved.

I had still one occasion of one frame corrupt from the process of copying from red card reader. No biggie, but still happens....far far less than firewire lexar reader

The bottom line is...every R3D files need to be check throughly frame by frame and we have develop our own tools to deal with it automatically. So at the end of the day, we are confident that there's zero corrupt frame on the data backup, 100% safe

Rivai
 
every R3D files need to be check throughly frame by frame and we have develop our own tools to deal with it automatically. So at the end of the day, we are confident that there's zero corrupt frame on the data backup, 100% safe

Rivai

Would you share, what kind of tool you developed and how it works?
If it realy works it would be something worth a little money.
 
I have switched to SSD and haven't been experiencing any of this problems after that.
 
Voltage carries heat, heat causes corruption. FW800 no longer offers a professional reliable solution. From my experience corruption is nearly 30% after three hours of shooting. 50% when shooting in extreme heat situations. I will not accept any FW800 readers, even brand new readers succumb to the same problems. Only when Power supply is separate... The firewire cable carries voltage, and is the #1 cause of corruption. If you use E-sata the rate of failure is less than 1%. The only time this changes is when you have installed incorrect drivers.
 
Voltage carries heat, heat causes corruption. FW800 no longer offers a professional reliable solution. From my experience corruption is nearly 30% after three hours of shooting. 50% when shooting in extreme heat situations. I will not accept any FW800 readers, even brand new readers succumb to the same problems. Only when Power supply is separate... The firewire cable carries voltage, and is the #1 cause of corruption. If you use E-sata the rate of failure is less than 1%. The only time this changes is when you have installed incorrect drivers.

I use eSATA connection and the USB power (I have AC adaptor) with my MacBook Pro (500GB SSD) and the eSATA express card for the 1.8' RED STATION and it's been working flawlessly. I've been avoiding to use FW800.
 
Voltage carries heat, heat causes corruption. FW800 no longer offers a professional reliable solution. From my experience corruption is nearly 30% after three hours of shooting. 50% when shooting in extreme heat situations. I will not accept any FW800 readers, even brand new readers succumb to the same problems. Only when Power supply is separate... The firewire cable carries voltage, and is the #1 cause of corruption. If you use E-sata the rate of failure is less than 1%. The only time this changes is when you have installed incorrect drivers.

That is interesting. The problem I have with this is, I have only had the data corruption problem with 16GB CF cards. Never with 8GB CF cards. Not sure why the firewire would over heat with 16GB CF cards and not 8GB CF cards or bus powered firewire drives.

I think it is the 16GB CF cards themselves overheating and causing data corruption and that is why it never effected bus power drives and 8GB CF cards.


Dusty
 
That is interesting. The problem I have with this is, I have only had the data corruption problem with 16GB CF cards. Never with 8GB CF cards. Not sure why the firewire would over heat with 16GB CF cards and not 8GB CF cards or bus powered firewire drives.

I think it is the 16GB CF cards themselves overheating and causing data corruption and that is why it never effected bus power drives and 8GB CF cards.


Dusty


I'm with Dusty on this one. FW800 was never a problem until we started having corrupt data via 16G CF cards. Weather or not the FW800 cable is generating extra heat and aiding the problem is one thing, but not the source of the issue IMO. Never see it on 8G cards, or other Bus powered devices either.
 
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