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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1080p monitoring in Build 16?

Mezmo,
I don't give a scrap about HD recording in camera. Also you might have to explain how the lut system is going to give me 1080p lumin/chroma resolutions. And I thought I was hassling Jim, but not for *that* HD build...that no one wants anyway!
But getting back to my point...1080p 4:2:2 focus/dailes/client monitor and if possible 4:4:4.
Let's see if the Red rep was right...hey!!
 
Hi Dave,
I dont build the camera just read the board from time to time and
I have noticed many before you have also requested 4K and a 1080p
422 out for the reasons you have explained. 'Snowballs chance in hell'
seems to be the reaction from this partcular camera company at the moment.
A LUT system will NEVER give you 1080p, you are right there.
Good luck with your quest.
Mezmo
 
Why bother, Stewart has stated on dozens of occasions that the
only way to get 1080p out the HDSDI ports on RED is if RED shoots
1080p,(with a 1080p build) As he works for the company I personally
have given up on a 4k and 1080p solution with this hardware.
As I said, if you haven't, good luck.
Mezmo
 
Steve Sanacore said:
I think that when the post work flow matures into a one step simple process like it is in my still photography world, we will be happy with 4K raw output for all our work.

My only concern is with high frame rates at 4K. I shoot at 48 - 60fps for one of my biggest clients, and hope I can do it at 4K and not a 2k windowed mode.
Click to expand...

60fps in 3K cuts with 4K footage VERY well. Much better than 2K.
 
I'm now not so sure that being able to output 1080 at 444 from Red's video tap would be such a good thing for Red.

We already have DPs and Gaffers working on Red camera, not understanding the RAW concept, judging the camera's quality from the video tap.

They're used to video camera workflows where 'what you see on the monitor is what you get'. I've heard complaints of tons of noise in the shadows,... color banding... 'that looks like 8bit video to me....' 'this isn't a 320ASA camera, more like a 160!!!'...

Barry Green had a great post in another thread talking about how DPs would never judge by a video tap in a film camera, and Red is more like film than video in this regard.

You will never get Graeme's super smooth demosaic and debayer in a realtime scaled down 1080 444 tap suitable for recording.

And then, it would always be about reminding the clients that the SR tape that you're giving them is just for offlining? Not the full quality image?!!

Tap should remain a 'PREVIEW' and not something that should necessarily be close enough quality to master from. Why? Red's imagery is TOO deep to do all that on the fly, and the results from going through the post image processing is really what this camera is all about. Otherwise, shoot with a video camera that is designed to output video signals to be recorded on videotape all day long.
 
Hi Kenn, i think you nailed the point exactly, in the film world: "DPs would never judge by a video tap in a film camera, and Red is more like film than video in this regard." You always use the Viewfinder to judge all lighting etc...
As a director on set, shooting in 35mm, i always used the monitors for framing and such, but to see the actual light, i'd have a quick look in the viewfinder... the problem is that a lot of the RED Cameras owners don't have the viewfinders yet and therefore have a hard time judging (did i spell that correctly?) what they're seeing on the LCD/Monitor etc...
 
ricbrazil said:
... the problem is that a lot of the RED Cameras owners don't have the viewfinders yet and therefore have a hard time judging (did i spell that correctly?) what they're seeing on the LCD/Monitor etc...
Click to expand...

The EVF is just another LCD monitor. It will be no more useful for judging exposure than any of the other preview outputs. It's still showing Rec709, etc.
 
The question of 1080P out of the HD-SDI ports is not just about the monitoring or external recording. There's a lot of equipment out there that doesn't sync well (or at all) with a 720P signal (even if you insert 'Varicam' flags in the VITC). Maybe a way around this could be for RED to make it possible to 'drive' the camera from the genlock input with a 1080P SDI signal... or some other way?
 
Couple of points here.....

Firstly on one hand, Stuart is saying 1080p won't be enabled on preview and dual sdi ports (or there abouts) until the camera the camera records 1080p. This sorta shuts most people up.
Next Jim says 1080p recording isn't a priority, let's scratch it off the list and add something that really matters.
Basically saying...you guys that want 1080p for whatever reason, Forget it!!

This feature is a huge one and I feel it deserves a bit more of an answer than that...

Keep you're 17" Dell or Pani monitors because that's it! That's the max you'll get live out of the camera.
Visual focus on 4K camera....it's 720p....and remember high resolution is the camera's selling point!!
Color precision......8bit 720p. On set, want a quick daily solution, a client monitor, ....same. ( just forget using those sony bravias).
Those that want full debayered 1080p...I'll concede the camera can't do 4K redraw and high quality 1080p rgb, although that's because I'm nieve.

So getting back on the point...there seems to be a lot of wriggle room between recording full 1080p and getting a lesser quality 1080p signal out....or at least I hope there is!!
For recording we make choices between FPS and resolution......and isn't this issue as important as the frame rate/resolution limits.
More so, because most of the time we don't care about high frame rates....but ALL the time we'll be concerned about high rez focus, taps etc.

My questions are....

Can (is it physically possible?) to do some kind of 1080p sdi out at the same recording 2k/4k redraw whilst feeding the 720p lcd/evf?
I expect they'll have to feed a 720p lcd/evf eventually...when they create a 1080p...ahem, cropped build anyway!
Or won't the sdi ports be 1080p in this build either!!
Is the dual link sdi ports redundant..and going to go the way of the high speed port?
Is there opportunity for 1080p playback option?

Thanks for your patience...

Saint Jude
 
You know a problem with this forum.....

There are a lot of smart people on it that get abbreviated facts.
And armed with the barest of information, have to throw up opinions/suggestion into the black unknown.

Red appreciates feedback but truly there's lots of it wasted on both sides as we only have 10% of the facts to comment on.

take the example above...1080p tap/red raw record...

I'm thinking...white board in one room with system architecture diagrams, component/solution bottlenecks...then talk....okay how can you get 100,000 people signinging an NDA on their design. but then again, is it really needed at this level?
Next room, marketing no no's, strategies, partners, product solutions...okay... as if we ever or ever should be privy to these discussions...even thought we feel the results of it!!

All I'm really saying to Red and others.....is patience

We don't have nearly enough of the facts as we comment and sound totally stupid because of that....but we're still trying !!

Anyway....Rave over...back on topic
 
I understand the lack of value in being able to record 1080p, when you can already record 2k/4k, and just rescale in redcine as part of the data export.

I don't understand the decision to put dual HD-SDI ports on the camera, which are now (presumably) worthless, since you only need dual HD-SDI for 1080p 4:4:4. So, I have hardware on the camera for something that doesn't exist in software. Try explaining that to a client. Its like having a built in SATA controller on your motherboard, but no BIOS support for it.


Anyway, this news is essentially old-hat. Someone asked me about 1080p out on Friday. I vaguely remember an old thread that said the same thing. Hopefully that will change.
 
No 1080p without a separate 1080p RGB build... Old news. Kinda scary that so many have missed this info. Most of this all came about in that heated discussion about 1080p and 720p RGB record modes vs. 2K and back when the possibility of doing scaled RAW came up...

The way I understand it is that there will be a separate "TV" build at some point that will enable 1080p RGB recording on-board and presumably 1080p RGB 4:4:4 output via SDI.
 
Well, there's two Red employees who say 1080p *out* is coming in build 16 or 17!

If this is wrong....please, someone from Red tech say so!

Dave,
 
david farland said:
Well, there's two Red employees who say 1080p monitoring is coming in build 16 or 17!
Click to expand...

What they're saying is contradictory to what has been posted to these forums. But it would be cool if they're right! 1080p monitoring would be most welcome. I just don't think it's going to happen (at least not with build 16) given Stuart's response to this thread less than 24 hours ago.
 
Rgb

Rgb

I don't understand the decision to put dual HD-SDI ports on the camera, which are now (presumably) worthless, since you only need dual HD-SDI for 1080p 4:4:4. So, I have hardware on the camera for something that doesn't exist in software. Try explaining that to a client.
Click to expand...

Try other camera companies don't constantly enhance their systems specs. :red_bandana:

Remember at NAB 2006 the RED-ONE was a 2K RGB camera, and that Summer we added 4K RAW (at no extra charge) The dual link HD-SDI was already there for 1080p RGB (cropped from 2K RGB) output. Also recall the heated discussions about why 2K RGB was or wasn't a bad idea to be recorded? Well we listened to that too and so RGB has been on a lower priority than RAW - especially as 12 bit RAW recording is so flexible in post.

When the camera records 1080p RGB, then the dual link HD-SDI output can provide 1080p 4:4:4 too. But in any case the HD Preview output is 720p - and its 720p for each and every format that the camera records. This is the way it has always been, nothing has changed.
 
Stuart English said:
When the camera records 1080p RGB, then the dual link HD-SDI output can provide 1080p 4:4:4 too..
Click to expand...

Will we get a single link 1080p output before the camera records 1080p RGB ?

Dave,

ps: a simple *NO* will end speculation......and then I'm done!
.
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