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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1080p monitoring in Build 16?

Hi SF
Fear not, the 1080 build will provide joy for those 1080 faces who care little
for 4 or 2K. Those with the monies.
Mezmo
 
Change

Change

I have been at every Red expo event, and before cameras shipped I always saw this large poster that said something like "everything subject to change... count on it".

That has always been true, doesn't mean you won't eventually get what you want. This camera is a much different machine than it was in NAB 2006, Cine Gear 2006, or IBC 2006.

just saying...
 
1080p Output - again

1080p Output - again

I will state the facts one more time, then its probably best to move on.


HD Preview is a 720p 4:2:2 10 bit "video tap". Its 720p resolution for all record formats - 4K, 3K and 2K RAW, 1080p RGB .... HD-SDI and HDMI.

Dual Link HD-SDI can be a clean feed 1080p 4:4:4 output when and only when recording 1080p (because the dual link outputs mirror the record format).



This is the way it has ALWAYS been. Having said that, if we can find a way to do 1080p under different circumstances, of course we would do it.
 
Can we please make that last post a sticky? This has been covered many times now, and I think the best bet is to make it a sticky so that newcomers to the forum can reference it and perhaps for even those who have been around for a while who may have missed it.
 
Stuart English said:
Correct - if we scale in-camera for a high quality 1920 x 1080 output we should crop, then scale 2:1 - i.e. from 3840 x 2160 RAW to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB. Or, without cropping, you could create 2048 x 1152 RGB from 4096 x 2304 RAW. Hence the 2K comments last year.

Although other scaling factors could be applied, you would introduce scaling artifacts that would detract from the whole purpose 1080p output is being requested for.
Click to expand...

Stuart,

Are you saying that 3840 x 2160 could be "sampled", then scaled to 1920 x 1080? This would mean nearly the depth of field and the field of view of 35mm... at 1080. Okay, that right there would be cause for celebration!

Would the final signal be 1080p RGB only? Or could there be an option for 1080p RAW as well?

As I see it, the ideal 1080 workflow would be 1080p RAW that has been scaled from a resolution that is close to the full sensor. Nearly all the benefits the Red has to offer, at a resolution that can be more easily handled by NLE's.

No more groaning from clients when you tell them you need to charge for *days* of transcoding...

-Thor
 
Thor, I don't believe that scaled Raw is an option.
 
Stuart English said:
Correct - if we scale in-camera for a high quality 1920 x 1080 output we should crop, then scale 2:1 - i.e. from 3840 x 2160 RAW to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB. Or, without cropping, you could create 2048 x 1152 RGB from 4096 x 2304 RAW. Hence the 2K comments last year..
Click to expand...
So which one is preferred....?

Just to close off some other points so we don't revisit as it's been well discussed......
Stuart English said:
2. HDMI/HDSDI monitoring outputs are fixed at 720p. This is because 720p is the only single link HDSDI video format that allows us to show every frame rate up through 60fps (or 120fps).

3. You can also use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output for 1080p monitoring. For 4:2:2 color space, only one link of the Dual-Link is necessary. (The 1080p/60 format is supported under SMPTE dual link specs .....)
Click to expand...
Stuart English said:
The phrase "Dual-link HD-SDI" can mean one or both of two things - RED can support both.

a) Use of two links to provide 4:4:4 RGB monitoring at 1080p or -
b) Two duplicate outputs of 4:2:2 YUV (Y,Cr,Cb) at 720p or 1080i or 1080p.
Click to expand...

So I hoping to see a clean 4:2:2 (or better) signal in the near future and...

yes, we know....specs subject to change!


Cheers,
 
I use a product from Atlona called the AT-HD560. I cant rave about this thing enough! I just got it. A guy there even showed me how to power it off of USB. I can use ANY HD monitor with an HDMI input. Works amazingly!
 
Thor Wixom said:
Stuart,

Are you saying that 3840 x 2160 could be "sampled", then scaled to 1920 x 1080? This would mean nearly the depth of field and the field of view of 35mm... at 1080. Okay, that right there would be cause for celebration!

Would the final signal be 1080p RGB only? Or could there be an option for 1080p RAW as well?

As I see it, the ideal 1080 workflow would be 1080p RAW that has been scaled from a resolution that is close to the full sensor. Nearly all the benefits the Red has to offer, at a resolution that can be more easily handled by NLE's.

No more groaning from clients when you tell them you need to charge for *days* of transcoding...

-Thor
Click to expand...

Lets presume that RED agreed to implement some form of RAW scalling.
Be creative and put your ides here.
I see scaling inside the RED happening only with the dedicated DSP hardware.
But it has to be very smart scaller to take few formats IN and on top of it user controllable one.
Scaling different material requires different scaling algorithms to get optimal result.

Optionally you could stick to one format and one scaling algorithm but then pick the pair.

For me this year is 4K 2:1 and Lanczos resampling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling

Next year I may want 16:9 and something different for underwater material.
And now we are asking for SCRATCH to be build in to the camera.
Yes, maybe something simple fixed on some single format and one scaling algorithm?

Well, Mysterium is optimized for day light and I see Finner crying out loud that red color is blowing out at 9 stops or so in no daylight. So how to make this scaling so everybody, or say 60% of people will be happy?
 
Stuart English said:
That is a correct statement.

To expand on that, HD Preview always is 720p (with lookaround), but the dual link output could be 1080p - but only when recording 1080 RGB.

As always, the above statements are subject to change - we may yet find a way of doing things even smarter :matrix:
Click to expand...

Stuart, is it an uncompressed HD1080P RGB444 ? if so, I may use HD1080P RGB uncompressed digital filed recorder to record this format to get a better picture. Something like DF did with his Zoaic gig.

Cheers,
Stewart
HKG-CHINA
 
david farland said:
damn about no 1080p out thou....cough!!
Click to expand...
Jannard said:
coming...

Build 16 has 1080P in-camera playback now.
..

The roadmap is single link HD-SDI 1080P at 4:2:2- true progressive and dual link HD-SDI 1080P 4:4:4 true progressive.
All recorders or end monitors must support 1080P true progressive...
Jim
Click to expand...


Well ladies...everyone hates a smart-@rse..but tie me to an ant's nest and smear my balls in honey if I ain't right on this one.
..oh wait, you've already done that.

Looking good so far....

Dave
 
Hi David,
Don't count your chickens, the devil is in the detail but I hope your right.
Mezmo
 
Playback only, so it's 1080p from RED compressed RAW, still need to record
RGB to get live uncompressed 1080p from RED.
Still, this is a handy feature.
Mezmo
 
Don't worry Mezmo...I've never had a problem admitting when I'm wrong!!
 
HD outputs

HD outputs

HD Preview always is 720p (with lookaround), but the dual link output could be 1080p - but only when recording 1080 RGB.

As always, the above statements are subject to change - we may yet find a way of doing things even smarter
Click to expand...

:construction: Note - these are true progressive outputs, there is no 1080 PsF support. Panasonic, JVC and Cine-tal monitors have been verified to operate with our progressive 1080p.
 
Stuart,

I believe from Jim's comment's you have found a way of doing things smarter... dual link without 1080 RGB recording.

As usual Stuart....you're a fountain of information.

Dave,
 
1080p Output - again

1080p Output - again

I believe from Jim's comment's you have found a way of doing things smarter... dual link without 1080 RGB recording.
Click to expand...

And thanks for pushing on this issue. Sometimes you don't really know what you can do until you mull over what you can't :matrix:
 
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