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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1.8" SSD Module

Jeff, I think it is misleading for you to refer even hypothetically to non-red media as 97.5% and RED media as 100%. I would think it more accurate to say hypothetically that "good enough" media might be 97% reliable and red media might be 98% reliable. Then again maybe I am wrong because they actually charge so much because their 128GB REDMAG actually has redundant storage controllers and 256GB of redundantly stored flash so it would be better referred to as 99% reliable.

Yes, the numbers are somewhat hypothetical. Nothing is ever 100%, anything can fail. By 100%, I'm referring to media that will record 100% of the time as it is intended, assuming there are no electrical or mechanical failures that deviate the media from proper function. The RED media does this. If it's in proper working order, it will work as intended.

If anyone is willing to accept media that may drop occasional frames or lose a shot here and there, even under normal operation, even if that may only happen once or twice out of every one hundred takes, then fine, let them have it. I would personally not want it, even if it were free. And I hope for the sake of the camera's reputation and the community as a whole, that RED does not make a move in this direction. That's what I was getting at with the 97%, that and it's a number that has been referenced here and there in the discussion already. Even when I pick up my camera, yes my RED One, to shoot my kids playing or for hobby shooting, something that matters to no one but even me, I still wouldn't want sub-standard media. My time is valuable to me. I don't want to lose a shot or have frames go missing every now and then because I bought cheaper media. I'll cut costs somewhere else.

I don't want to show up on a shoot, mission critical or not, and have to operate a camera or perform in any task that deals with the media or data, if the production is using sub-standard media. I would refuse, I would walk off the set. Of course I would tell them why and let them try and round up proper media... No self-respecting camera op, AC, or DIT is going to work on a shoot using sub-standard media. As soon as frames are dropped or a shot is lost and fingers start pointing, I'm not going to deal with it. Been there, done that.

And, FWIW, as insurance providers are becoming more and more digital savvy, you will find it increasingly harder to get insurance coverage for non-approved media and data storage.

That's my stand on all this. If you don't agree, then cheers, I respectfully agree to disagree with you. To me, the premium for the media is a small price to pay for the extra assurance, insurance and the ability to be able to call up RED and bitch at someone who will actually care if something does go wrong.

No. I am suggesting that in outdoor environments it might be exposed when operating.

Er... I don't see where it would be any more or less of an issue than the CF card, other ports on the camera, the lens mount, etc.. If you're in an environment where something could get into the REDMAG slot, I'd say you have plenty of other things to protect on the camera. Use proper protection at all times and you'll be fine. Those of us who shoot outdoors a lot don't think twice about this. We bag the camera and/or tape up ports.

IE: let's say you are on a ship and there is a soft spray, you are on a ski hill and there is a bit of moisture flying around.

Perfect examples. And that REDMAG port is only one out of about 30 or 40 things you should be protecting.

Not picking on you, David. I just don't understand what everyone is so concerned about. As Jarred has pointed out, we've seen most of these concerns pop up with the CF module on the RED One. But once everyone actually received their cameras, it was suddenly not a big deal.

As for those that are so worried about the 1.8" REDMAG getting snapped off.... OK, now I have to ask just what you think your camera will be doing where this might happen? The REDMAG doesn't stick out as far as the side handle, let alone a mattebox or other hardware that will probably be mounted. The Epic with a REDMAG sticking out seems no wider than a RED One body. If something is going to be falling next to the camera or moving that close with enough force to snap a 1.8" storage device (inside an aluminum housing) in half, then I think you guys have a lot more to worry about than just protecting that 1.8" thing that's probably not sticking out of the camera more than about an inch and a half.
 
I see us definitely having the 1.8 SSD and module for certain more stationary production sequences, but regularly using CF cards for the real mobile work.

... so I'll go with setups of CF for hyper-mobile production, and SSD for moderately mobile and stationary production scenarios.

The great thing is that Red is giving us many media options which really enhance the utility and modularity of these new cameras :thumbsup:

:iagree:

I think Gibby has hit the nail on the head, and he ... more than almost anybody ... should be concerned with this new camera's durability.

Let's face it ... no matter what media you are using ... If you are going to work near ocean spray or blowing sand, and you don't have an element cover for your ENTIRE camera ... you're an idiot.


EL-RCRK.gif


As David Mullen added, no camera can be completely sealed from the elements. There will always be heat vents. Not to mention the tens of thousands of dollars in glass staring into that challenging environment. (Hint: clear filter)

The modularity of the Epic is all about choices.

  • Right now, if you want to shoot from a helicopter or Steadicam... you go with CF cards or a RED-RAM for their durability and frame drop stability.
  • If it's a concert performance, you're currently likely to be using the RED-RAM for its vibrational stability and record time.
  • If you are filming longer stationary interviews, you might very well choose the RED DRIVE for its length of recording and affordability.
As Gibby said, if you want to be lightweight, you will more than likely go with the CF cards anyway.

After all, we will most likely see 64GB cards very soon, and as it turns out (thanks to Jarred) we know what these 64GB cards are likely to cost.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=598424&postcount=2

Personally, I think these 64GB cards will necessitate a price drop in the RED-RAM.

I for one, think the 1.8" SSD REDMAGS will be a great additional option for studio and more controlled filming situations ... dolly, jib arm, Technocrane, etc.

However, If you truly hate the REDMAG module and its possible vulnerability ... instead of buying (The 1.8" SSD module and two 128GB REDMAGS = $4500.00) ... buy (four 64GB Cards = $4,400.00)

When the Epic arrives, you are actually going to now have four different ways to record media with the Epic/Scarlet line.

Choices are always a good thing. :thumbup:

Just my two cents.
 
yeah but until you know what data rates each media can support (frames per sec & quality) can't work out what media is best suited to what.
 
yeah but until you know what data rates each media can support (frames per sec & quality) can't work out what media is best suited to what.

I agree with you 100%.

However, that is an issue we have to deal with now as well.
 
Is alive and kicking.. Along with the 128GB 1.8" REDMAG, and 1.8" RED STATION reader.

1274561678.jpg


Just noticed this, maybe someone can clarify:

1: Where's the module adapter? It looks like the SSD Module attached directly to the Brain. I thought there was a $300 module adapter required for both Scarlet and Epic to attach any modules except the REDMOTE.

2: When the SSD module is attached to Scarlet, are the ergonomics for holding it by the Side Handle hindered by both the protruding REDMAG in addition to the increased width of the module since it's at Epic sized?

Thanks!

KO
 
Just noticed this, maybe someone can clarify:

1: Where's the module adapter? It looks like the SSD Module attached directly to the Brain. I thought there was a $300 module adapter required for both Scarlet and Epic to attach any modules except the REDMOTE.

KO

It looks to me like the module adapter is the part with red bolts on the side.
 
It looks to me like the module adapter is the part with red bolts on the side.


I thought so too but in this photo the red bolts on "Crackpot" end at the fourth rib on the left side. However the other photo shows them at the fifth rib on the right.

I think you're correct, the SSD module has a gap between the fifth and sixth rib, and the top vent ends at the fourth, just like the picture below. I guess Jarred's just playing with us!

Man, I really like the red bolts, too bad we won't see those in production :-(

KO

1274630098.jpg
 
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heh heh you guys are so silly... You are comparing two different sides. I have Crackpot engraved on the right side of the Brain, and also the left side of the Adapter Module.

The little piece with the engraving is completely cosmetic, and fits in the spots of both the adapter module and the piece on the camera Brain left side right behind the CF slot.

In the photo with the SSD module, the Module Adapter is on the camera. On the post directly above, there is no module adapter.
 
Ah, now I have a better idea of how thin the SSD module is. Any word on how much it weighs? Also, I noticed you scratched the post that said Pirates 4 was being shot on MX'd Reds, etc. Just hoping this could mean they're getting EPICs to shoot with.
 
You are right Rory. Each media will offer different data rates and that will be main deciding factor.
 
Rory and Gian,

I already mentioned that point in my post #165 of this thread with this comment:

"The media decision factor for mobile non-hardlined EFP crews, since we shoot a lot of high frame rate production, will be to analyze the bit rate, frame rate, and mobility needs of each day's shooting and select between CF and SSD accordingly."

In that same post, as Peter mentioned, I said that for mobile genres weight is a critical consideration. Fact is, an Epic or Scarlet, configured with the back of camera SSD module will be more heavy and bulky than a camera setup of simply CF and Side Handle. But as I mentioned, the bit rate and frame rate needed will also factor into the camera setup considerations for the shooting to be done. Bottom line is if CF will get us the needed bit rate and frame rate in a mobile shooting scenario, we'll usually choose that over the added weight and bulk of the back of camera SSD module.

I also mentioned in my post #165 how a camera-side SSD module option, flat like the CF module, and in the same place on the side of the camera itself, would be great if it was offered - placed where the camera-side CF module is presently. If that was an option me and my crews would go all SSD with the camera side module, and not use CF at all - the best of both worlds - longer storage times, probably the fastest frame rates, and also the lightest camera setup possible. Since that's apparently not in the plans (yet), me and my crews will probably need to go with CF for hyper-mobile work, and SSD for semi-mobile and stationary work. We'll also do a lot of hybrid DSMC work, where we'll need to shoot both motion and stills in a rapid, mobile environment - and a CF camera setup (or on camera body SSD module) would be the lightweight (think mobility) rig setup for that.

Whether we're using CF or SSD for outdoor use in challenging elements, the modules and media will always be shielded via covers like the ET cover we use, which Peter posted, and/or gaffer's tape over media and ports, etc.
 
heh heh you guys are so silly... You are comparing two different sides. I have Crackpot engraved on the right side of the Brain, and also the left side of the Adapter Module.

The little piece with the engraving is completely cosmetic, and fits in the spots of both the adapter module and the piece on the camera Brain left side right behind the CF slot.

In the photo with the SSD module, the Module Adapter is on the camera. On the post directly above, there is no module adapter.

I think I am gonna stop making assumptions and therefore keep my comments to myself....haha, I don't want Jarred thinking I'm silly when I need to ask for help when I get my Scarlet... :-)

KO
 
heh heh you guys are so silly... You are comparing two different sides. I have Crackpot engraved on the right side of the Brain, and also the left side of the Adapter Module.

The little piece with the engraving is completely cosmetic, and fits in the spots of both the adapter module and the piece on the camera Brain left side right behind the CF slot.

In the photo with the SSD module, the Module Adapter is on the camera. On the post directly above, there is no module adapter.

Jarred,

Please post something new for us to panic about.

~REDuser

;) :laugh:
 
Firmware upgrade from ssd?

Firmware upgrade from ssd?

Just wondering if we'll be able to upgrade firmware from an ssd drive instead of CF module?
 
Jarred,

Please post something new for us to panic about.

~REDuser

;) :laugh:

Yeah, c'mon it's been a couple days. :-)

But seriously, any tattoos shipped?

And how's Jim doing?
 
Tattoo is go

Tattoo is go

Yeah, c'mon it's been a couple days. :-)

But seriously, any tattoos shipped?

And how's Jim doing?

I'd like to know Jim's wellness status too. But Jared has just answered your first question!

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45733&page=7

Correct... The Tattoo Program has already begun, Snake Oil, Lucky, Jackpot, Crackpot and Ghost are all Tattoo cameras that have been built in the last couple weeks. Several more are being assembled, and once Firmware V1.0 is ready, those new Tattoos will be delivered to the selected few that are in the Tattoo program.
 
Jim is doing well.
 
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