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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

VFS Inclino, Imperio, Origo News ??

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Dan Graetz said:
Ok - that's fair enough. Thanks for the info Tony. In the absence of communication from VF you're one of the few who can keep us informed about what to expect.
Cheers,
Dan
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I wouldn't say that, but maybe I can help people understand why this is so hard for Curt to pull off. I'll write him an e-mail and let him know what's going on in the thread in case he hasn't logged in for a while.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
Remember that the one person here that has the most to loose is Curt and the Viewfactor brand. He knows that - and that's just about the best insurance we all have.
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Thanks for the summary Tony.


Good news from Curt. He Tweeted yesterday:


Our tooling for Inclino is finally in the USA. Meeting with the die caster on Thurs. to get it online and start making new parts.


And also:


The non-powered 5D Contineo cage is available in limited quantities. 5D/7D Powered versions coming in a couple weeks.
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
I might be wrong about some of this, but this is what I've been told: The Impero has never really been the problem - beside the fact that Curt needed change the type of transmitter and add the antenna to get better coverage on them. The real problem has always been the motors. The initial pricing and schedule was based on parts being produced to spec in Asia (China - as far as I know). Curt had hoped the parts would be right the first time, which means the motors just had to be assembled in the US. First part was the housing that he got back from the factory in China. Making the housing for the quantities Curt was expecting required him to have some very expensive tooling made instead of milling everything from a block of aluminum. This is also what RED did in the beginning with their accessories. The housings appeared to be fine at first, but when he started assembling the motors he found out that a lot of them were out of spec. With the kind of tolerances he has in those motors everything has to line up very precisely. So he had to fly there to get the problem fixed and get production up and running again. Once parts were in he found there were still problems and getting the tooling back from the factory to have the housings produced in the US was a loooong and expensive legal struggle for him, as I understand.

These motors have a lot of parts in them - all coming from many different companies, but once he got the first ones assembled he found out that they had problems with torque, stability and noise. So he had to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new motor design that would fit inside the old housing. The design he came up with is pretty smart actually, but requires a lot of extremely precise machined parts. Instead of sending the job back to China he decided to invest in a very expensive CNC mill to be able to do it himself. Naturally - this takes time away from the desk, but it was the only way for him to control the quality. After a few iterations (like changing from steel to aircraft-grade - and very expensive - 7075 aluminum) he got the motors working properly. Next problem was that some of the parts he had gotten for the new motor design were out of spec (again). Finding this problem was apparently quite difficult because some of them are so small that they only have to be something like 0.001 inch out of spec to be unusable. Try measuring that with an ordinary vernier caliper ;-) So he had to develop a ways and tools to QA everything he got in the door while developing new products to get some money to keep the business running AND assembling new motors.

Just to put a cherry on top of everything there were also some issue with components where the software or interfaces weren't up to spec as promised, which meant he had to do a lot of programming on the stuff to get it working as advertised. As I understand it he basically bought a couple of thousand units of some parts that weren't working as advertised and couldn't return them for some reason.

I can't tell what the deal is with people getting motors off of the queue. I just know that I'm number 8 in queue, but I got motors before everyone else because I promised to provide Curt with valuable technical feedback. I have somewhat of a technical background, so that might be why he wanted me to test the motors in the first place. I consider myself having been an alpha or beta tester though I've never used those terms when talking to Curt.

Curt also told me in confidence some other stuff that enlightened me in a way that I now understand how much of an uphill struggle this has been for him personally and professionally. I'm not trying to defend the lack of communication and/or his skills as a businessman, but I have met Curt and he really seems like a very nice - and super bright - guy. He really does want to make the best product because he knows he can't sell other products if the Impero and Inclino are working like crap. Remember that the one person here that has the most to loose is Curt and the Viewfactor brand. He knows that - and that's just about the best insurance we all have.

I have no idea why production isn't ramping up as promised. I have no idea how Viewfactor is doing financially, but from what I could tell Curts brother was there working on a saturday doing RMAs and assembling motors. They seemed to have lots of parts there. Putting these together and testing them thoroughly looked like a time-consuming job to me so that might be the reason it's taking so long. Remember - they have to QA all the 40-something parts (as far as I remember) that go into each motor.

Maybe a representative on the behalf of the people here could call Curt and record the call (with his consent of course)? Just an idea.
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I wish someone could delete all the posts in this thread before yours and we could continue the discussion from that.
 
Thanks Tony,

That was a great summary if people don't want to wade through a few thousand posts. I have been following this for a couple years now and pretty much up to speed but it would be great if you did email and he responded as he may to you as he isn't to a lot of other people. Not the best way to get information of what is going on by having to go through yourself and it isn't fair on you, but at least it is something.

Cheers for that!
 
Curran Giddens said:
Our tooling for Inclino is finally in the USA. Meeting with the die caster on Thurs. to get it online and start making new parts.
And also:
The non-powered 5D Contineo cage is available in limited quantities. 5D/7D Powered versions coming in a couple weeks.
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Don't necessarily think it is good news as it could mean anything, i have heard that a hell of a lot of times before. Must be the tooling that was locked up in Asia that he was having legal battles about...you know...the one he said was settled and arriving to his workshop just before christmas...hmmmm.

But Curran, thanks for letting us know this bit of info...every bit helps. Thanks again!
 
Hi

Have been away for a wile - do you know if any units has left the Viewfactor site?

I ordered last Christmas (15 months), I sure Curt i struggling to get the best for us, I hope I get the FF before I retitre though....
 
well I must say I'd rather be waiting then have a product that doesn't work.
now it also would be nice to get a reply to the many emails I have sent to VF, that would just be a friendly way of dealing with people... but hey I know that's a bit too much to ask from someone who handed over $2000 2 years ago.
 
And well; before starting to deliver "The non-powered 5D Contineo cage" maybe you should fulfill the order you had been paid for. Paid for like two years ago.
 
Maybe you guys shouldn't have given your money to a business that had nothing in production, never produced anything before, and was promising the world in regard to performance.

It sounds like Curt's a good, smart person, just mired with engineering details. But before bitching about the money you threw away really think about what you did. If I gave money to 10 companies that gave me the same pitch I would feel lucky if 1 or 2 of them delivered (RED is one of those few, but remember the upfront was only 10%).

P.S. I have an amazing bridge for sale, CHEAP!! Contact me for the details. . .
 
roryhinds said:
wonder if Curt is going to show his face at NAB?
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Well, it's a losing proposition not matter what he does. If he does, you all will complain that he's not back making more. But if he doesn't then you all will complain that he's not there. Can't win any which way.

The product does exist. It does work well. It sucks that I had to rent a bartec quite a few times (majors $$$) before I got my Viewfactor. But I did get a remote follow focus for $1800 and I like it ALOT better than any other follow focus I've ever used.

Matthew
 
Hey Matthew, glad to hear you are happy with your unit, hope I get mine before the three year anniversary of my order ;-)
 
Matthew where are you on the list?
I'm number 25.
I hardly think getting "more units made" is the problem. You would think after 2 years he would be able to complete 25 units.

I think as a whole VF loses as a company.
You simply can't treat paying "investors" like they have and not walk away without a bad rep.

Curt should have taken more notice of how RED and Jim treated people who backed the company from an earlier age.
BTW I have RED#68
 
Matthew Rogers said:
But I did get a remote follow focus for $1800 and I like it ALOT better than any other follow focus I've ever used.
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Given that you've rented a Bartech several times (and I assume M-One motor, but correct me otherwise), may I ask what you liked better/worse about the Viewfactor?
 
roryhinds said:
Matthew where are you on the list?
I'm number 25.
I hardly think getting "more units made" is the problem. You would think after 2 years he would be able to complete 25 units.

I think as a whole VF loses as a company.
You simply can't treat paying "investors" like they have and not walk away without a bad rep.

Curt should have taken more notice of how RED and Jim treated people who backed the company from an earlier age.
BTW I have RED#68
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I have no clue where I was on the list. I beta tested units for Curt on and off for the past year.

I do agree that the situation has been frustrating. But Curt really does want to have a solid product and isn't resting until he gets it right.

Matthew
 
Yeah so do RED, but look at how they communicate with there users and earlier adopters.
Im sure Curt might be working hard but I have no idea as he doesn't respond to my emails, so he could be giving me the finger... who knows
 
Mike Prevette said:
Maybe you guys shouldn't have given your money to a business that had nothing in production, never produced anything before, and was promising the world in regard to performance.

It sounds like Curt's a good, smart person, just mired with engineering details. But before bitching about the money you threw away really think about what you did. If I gave money to 10 companies that gave me the same pitch I would feel lucky if 1 or 2 of them delivered (RED is one of those few, but remember the upfront was only 10%).

P.S. I have an amazing bridge for sale, CHEAP!! Contact me for the details. . .
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Maybe you should go read other threads and post there. If myself or anyone wishes to vent we can vent, this is the place for it. It was a calculated chance with working APHA prototypes, not a vapourware situation as RED were at that stage. And in all honesty we may still get a FF from it. Don't come here being righteous and a smart ass. :nads:
Don't get me wrong, i love a good smart ass...i'm an aussie and it's bred into us at birth...but yours just gave me the shits. Pre-post-apology for having another vent and i hope your bridge sells...my bid starts at $1.01 and includes a blue tooth remote for controlling the draw-bridge.
 
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