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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cost of Scarlet

Jimmy Odom said:
If RED deduces that they are able to turn a profit on the 2/3rd Fixed package at its price point which of course includes all the essentials required to shoot, which mind you all other Models will also require to do the same then why would they charge MORE $ just because you want options?

To me it would make a TON of business sense to offer EVERYONE the oppurtunity, whether Fixed do. I mean we ALL need those modules, so why not setup a basic shooting package, that we ALL can save, and not just those who choose the less exspensive package.
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I don't get this logic -- "why would they charge more $ just because you want more options?" You basically want to pay less to get more, hardly surprising, but why wouldn't they charge more money for more options?

The fixed-lens Scarlet is basically being packaged as a low-cost deal in order to sell at volume to the highest number of people, a consumer video philosophy where sales volume and the economics of scale compensate for the low profit per camera. And to some extent, this is an experiment on Red's part to step beyond their current customer base.

That's not the intent of the rest of the Scarlet and Epic line.

Red is being incredibly generous with their fixed lens Scarlet, 2/3" photography for under $10,000. But I don't see why this implies that it is equally easy for them to just offer the same deals on all their other cameras! I would be more thankful for Red's generosity on one camera than instead demand that they be just as generous with all their other cameras.
 
When did I mention charging premiums???

I just think that they will charge the normal price (the same price that Epic users without an R1 will have to pay too).... the brain is $2750!!! That gives you $2000 to play with.... or to put towards a fixed lens kit, as mentioned.

Jimmy Odom said:
But if your implying that their business model is to charge premiums as the customer goes up in purchasing options, I just don't see it.
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Jim Retar said:
When did I mention charging premiums???
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Oh sorry my bad, I misunderstood your position. I was merely referencing the additional modules required to add to the bodies in order to get them ready for shooting.
 
It's funny, in all the people who I've talked with recently, the dilemma has been between buying the 2/3 fixed or the 2/3 cinema.

I've put a lot of thought into this, and have shared my upgrade path with a few people and actually got more people thinking about the fixed than the 2/3 cinema.

For me, I've been shooting with the 7D while waiting for the Scarlet. I just shot my first paid music video with the 7D and was impressed with it's performance. That said, dealing with the jello & moire/aliasing is a HUGE concern that has to be dealt with constantly.

That said, when I looked at the 2/3 Cinema, it makes no sense to use my Canon/Sigma glass on this sensor. In addition, I just cannot see putting a whole lot of money into new glass for the 2/3 sensor either.

For this reason, if I need super shallow DoF, I can use the 7D in those situations. For everything else, I can use the fixed 2/3 and have an amazing camera to do all the stuff I cannot do with the 7D.

With this setup, my next upgrade path would be the S35 body (which I *think* was $7k) and either save the fixed for slomo work, or sell the main module for someone who might want to do 3D or something with another fixed.

I'm very thankful that Red has chosen to do this with the fixed system as it allows me to get in there, make some money, and move up from that point. I can use my canon glass that I really like and not have to buy all the other modules for the S35 when it comes out. win/win.

Other people are looking at this path with the other brains as well, but unless Red announces something significantly different, this will be the path I go.
 
Tiana Hall said:
2/3 Interchangeable 2750
2/3 Fixed 4750
miniprimes 4750

total 12250

This would give you a bare minimum package with lots of shooting possibilites.

If you only bought 3 mini primes it would be. $10350

These don't include CF card storage. Probably it would add another thousand.

I know I'm going to buy a Fixed. I haven't decided the rest yet. Even though the Scarlet S35 brain is about 5000 more than the Interchangeable it seems like there are alot more lenses possibilites. And going with Still lenses and a S35 might be almost as ecomonical to start.

:) Tiana
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I'd thought a lot about going for the S35 brian, but with a suggested price of $7000, i'd have to get a really bare-bones level of accessories.. and then hunt around for some good still lenses...
 
Well Id have to defer to Cinematographers that have more experience with older lenses and their suitability, but Id reckon Id consider a used Cooke 10.8 - 60 T3 or a Zeiss 10-100 T2 I believe they are available converted from 16mm to S16. Anything wider gets quite expensive by comparison if is B4 or perhaps a PL Canon 6.6 to 66 etc. They seem to be available at £1400 UKP or so. If these are thought to be good for Scarlet then yes Im sure that its possible under $10,000
 
How 'bout the S35 Scarlet for a little over $10K?

S35 Scarlet brain - $7000
2.8" LCD - $900
Side Handle (w/battery) - $950
Side CF module - $500
Nikon mount - $500
2x 8GB CF cards - $330
Nikon 50mm f1.8 lens - $120
TOTAL - $10,300

:thumbsup:
 
I also think battery performance is going to play a role on cost as well. Has there been any mention on how long the battery is expected to perform? This could add a bit of cost as well that I think should be considered.
 
Dave Blackham said:
Well Id have to defer to Cinematographers that have more experience with older lenses and their suitability, but Id reckon Id consider a used Cooke 10.8 - 60 T3 or a Zeiss 10-100 T2 I believe they are available converted from 16mm to S16. Anything wider gets quite expensive by comparison if is B4 or perhaps a PL Canon 6.6 to 66 etc. They seem to be available at £1400 UKP or so. If these are thought to be good for Scarlet then yes Im sure that its possible under $10,000
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Super 16 lenses are not needed for 2/3", the less expensive Cooke 9-50 T2.5, or other 16mm lenses, will do just as well and get you a little wider coverage and faster speed too . Covers 2k on Red 1 or the S35 too. The 10.8-60 T3 Cooke is with the S16 conversion.
 
David Rasberry said:
Super 16 lenses are not needed for 2/3", the less expensive Cooke 9-50 T2.5, or other 16mm lenses, will do just as well and get you a little wider coverage and faster speed too . Covers 2k on Red 1 or the S35 too. The 10.8-60 T3 Cooke is with the S16 conversion.
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David, thanks for this. So your saying all standard 16mm lenses will cover 2/3 ?

Looks like 16mm is frame size of 10.26 x 7.49mm and 2/3 is 8.8mm x 6.6mm.
 
2,750 - 2/3" Interchangeable Scarlet.
900 - 2.8" touch LCD
550 - REDMOTE
500 - Side CF Module
950 - Side Handle

So, for essentially the same stuff as a fixed Scarlet plus a side handle, the total comes out to 5,650 (plus battery, CF, and any necessary lens mount depending on Lens choice)

That leaves 4,350 for glass in the 10k range... That's 4 prime lenses, or a zoom, etc, etc... So, I'd say.... looks more than possible to be a sub 10K$ camera.

Later,
Jason
 
How you define under 10k is relevant too. Is this for the most basic out of the box working camera setup, or is it for a practical field production package with enough accessories like batteries and media to support a day's shooting? (not including other things like lighting and support).
 
David Rasberry said:
How you define under 10k is relevant too. Is this for the most basic out of the box working camera setup, or is it for a practical field production package with enough accessories like batteries and media to support a day's shooting? (not including other things like lighting and support).
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For my purposes, it's a vague and arbitrary demarkation. You also have to factor that not everyone pays list prices for things in the real world.
 
Jaime Vallés said:
How 'bout the S35 Scarlet for a little over $10K?

S35 Scarlet brain - $7000
2.8" LCD - $900
Side Handle (w/battery) - $950
Side CF module - $500
Nikon mount - $500
2x 8GB CF cards - $330
Nikon 50mm f1.8 lens - $120
TOTAL - $10,300

:thumbsup:
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I don't even think including the CF Cards is necessary. Sure you need them, but you also need DV tapes/P2 Cards for other cameras that aren't included in the camera price.

Without media you're under $10k. You could even throw in a ridiculously cheap Nikon 55-200mm for an extra $50 but that would put you $20 over $10,020.
 
I think you can go wireless FF with the regular redmote as well, but probably not as nice to turn as a barrel dial. Wonder if you could retrofit some aftermarket dial on to it?
 
I'd go with a fixed. Then buy a second 2/3" removable, or a S35, but...

For those of you talking 2/3" non-fixed, I am going to assume that you are obviously concerned with cinema use. So I'd look at getting a Red Mote Pro, for wireless FF! : ) It could work for 10k if you got it with a Canon Mount and the 10-22mm zoom. The difference from RedMote to Pro RedMote is $1,200, but now you could throw it on a steady, crane, Fig Rig, anything that benefits from wireless FF!!

This package doesn't really work though. It isn't realistic. A battery pack would be necessary... $10k is not enough.

$2,750 --- 2/3" Removable Brain
$1,750 --- Base I/O Module
$1,750 --- Pro Red Mote
$1,600 --- 5" Touchscreen
$950 ----- Side Handle
$500 ----- Canon Mount
$800 ----- Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
========
$10,100.-

I think the 5" screen is sort of a must, if you expect to have nothing else.

However I am not familiar with the FOV from a 10-22mm on 2/3". The obvious worry is that 10mm will be prohibitive, not just from being able to work in tight spaces but also from being wide enough for some if the stuff that you'd use wireless FF for. When on a S35 steady you are super-wide to 28mm, give or take by preference. So I wonder how 10mm translates.

Of course the option would be to pick one RMP. However, one focal length would be hard. The only way to get more range with more focal lengths would be to drop the Pro RedMote for the normal one, which frees up an other $1,200. With that and the $800 from (not buying) the Canon and the $500 from (not buying) the electronic mount, you could get two RMPs... like the 6mm and the 16mm I suppose.

The non-wireless alternative is likely to give you the ability to shoot night-vision stuff. But the Canon zoom is a great S35 lens if you plan to get a S35 brain. Also, it should be plenty fast with this insane sensitivity Red is packing into M-X.

Still, this would be a killer package too, and $600 cheaper which means you are $450 from a third T1.5 RMP or $750 from being able to use it for more than a few hours and have to wait for your only small battery to re-charge... ;P

$2,750 --- 2/3" Removable Brain
$1,750 --- Base I/O Module
$550 ----- Red Mote
$1,600 --- 5" Touchscreen
$950 ----- Side Handle
$950 ----- 6mm T1.5 RMP
$950 ----- 16mm T1.5 RMP
========
$9,500.-
 
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