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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Real" 2:1 - editor needs help

E

Elyse

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So, editing a short film in FCP. When they shot it (4K) they told me "now, you'll have to add letterbox because RED doesn't shoot real 2:1."

Now, when I put it in FCP, according to the frame size, it is 2:1. How the crap do I figure out how to make the proper sized letterbox to make it "real" 2:1 when I can't find anything telling me it isn't? I have boom mics to cover with those boxes!

Help.

Thanks!

*this was also posted under workflow, but i didn't get enough answers so I posted again here.
 
If you fit width with 2:1 then it will display as 2:1 in a 16x9 frame.

RED does shoot a mathematica; 2:1 ratio (4096x2048) which is exactly 2 pixels wide by 1 pixel high.

It's a golden ratio as described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

Vittorio Storaro speaks a lot about this ratio and was one of the first to shoot it for TV.

"Storaro developed the new technology with the intention of 2:1 becoming the universal aspect ratio for both movies and television in the digital age. He first shot the television mini-series "Dune" with the Univision system."

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005886/bio


I guess I am saying that because the RED shoots 2:1 at 2 pixels by 1 pixel, it is REAL 2:1. You just have to make that fit width in 16x9 (you'll see black bars on the top and bottom.
Or make a custom sequence in FCP that is 2048x1024.

David
 
Well... the RED ONE shoots 4K 2:1, 4K 16:9, and 4K HD.
If they shot 16:9 or HD (which is also 16:9) then you'll be able to letterbox it to 2:1.
If they shot 2:1 and there are boom mics in the shots, they've made a boo-boo, and you'll have to letterbox it to less than 2:1, or zoom in on it on in and crop in all dimensions.
 
Just edit your original footage as it is and then throw the timeline into another time line that has the aspect ratio, codec, etc. that you want.

I am sure there are more geeky and scientific ways of doing this - but nothing is easier than this way :-)
 
For the boom stuff you need to either blow it up and reposition it with the 2:1 frame or you can paint it out with an application like Shake.

David
 
First off what are you working with.
Proxy? like H or M
A transcoded codec file? like ProRes 422 1080p

if you can tell me that we can discuss workflow of the RED R3Ds
this may help you down the line in your online process.
 
Also,

Please let a moderator here on Reduser know that you posted the exact same post twice in tow different forums.

This is poor online etiquette. In the future post the word BUMP into the thread you started to let people know you are looking for an answer to your question and to keep it in the ether.

David
 
I am currently editing with the H proxies.
I put them on the sequence and the SEQ adjusted to the clip settings, the frame size of which is 2048x1024.
 
Elyse said:
I am currently editing with the H proxies.
I put them on the sequence and the SEQ adjusted to the clip settings, the frame size of which is 2048x1024.
Click to expand...

What is the delivery?

This wil determine how to fix it.
 
Actually, it sounds to me like the comment was stated backwards. Either they are confused or the description was incorrectly stated. It *sounds* to me like they are saying they want the wider 2.35:1 aspect (which would be common for film), but that RED only shoots 2:1. This means that they actually want the height cropped slightly so the result is a letterboxed 2.35:1 aspect (not as tall as 2:1). Therefore the crop (hopefully) fixes the boom issues.

- Oliver

PS: I reposted my response here, as this seems to be posted in two forums, but more of the discussion is in this thread.
 
Elyse said:
yes, sorry. i am unfamiliar with proper online etiquette.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, just letting you know.


If it is a 4K delivery then you have to be on FCS3 because anything before that version does not handle 4K.

The final sequence should be 4096x2048. Obviously you can not edit with R3D at that resolution, but once you have it cut in FCP then you can reconnect the media to the F proxy for your finsih.

WHo is your post house/Colorist?

David
 
Yes, I am on fcs3. I edit with the smaller proxies first, then once I get the CC footage, I'll reconnect with the exported CC files, I'm assuming will be 4K Qts (422 codec.)

The CC is by a freelancer, post is mainly me.
 
Oliver Peters said:
Actually, it sounds to me like the comment was stated backwards. Either they are confused or the description was incorrectly stated. It *sounds* to me like they are saying they want the wider 2.35:1 aspect (which would be common for film), but that RED only shoots 2:1. This means that they actually want the height cropped slightly so the result is a letterboxed 2.35:1 aspect (not as tall as 2:1). Therefore the crop (hopefully) fixes the boom issues.

- Oliver
Click to expand...

This is what you need to figure out.

Are you looking for 2:1? If so, you already have it, and you're in a bind as far as those booms go.

Are you looking for 2.35:1? This is a more common "film" aspect ratio, although it's primarily used for Anamorphic work. (Actually, anamorphic these days is 2.39:1. Random film-geek fact) If this is where you're trying to end up, you still have a number of options as far as cropping out the booms.
 
Crop or letter box

Crop or letter box

My programs can crop or letterbox TIF sequence with or without CC and resize, their freeish now, up to near 8K sizes.
 
David Battistella said:
If you fit width with 2:1 then it will display as 2:1 in a 16x9 frame.

RED does shoot a mathematica; 2:1 ratio (4096x2048) which is exactly 2 pixels wide by 1 pixel high.

It's a golden ratio as described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
Click to expand...

You mean 16:9 is the Golden Ratio, right? The wiki says it's 1.618ish, which would be a frame size of say, 1618 x 1000, which would be something like 16x9.9. Which is closeish to 16x9. I wonder why they decided on 16x9, anyways?
 
I'm pretty sure they mean 2.35:1 as their final output format. There are only two theatrical formats, 2.35:1 which is cinemascope and 1.85:1.
Final Cut offers 2.35 mattes as a standard effect. To be sure have them shoot a frameleader with the camera in the future. That's what you do with film anyways. On a frameleader you match the frame lines in the viewfinder and shoot it.

It's a bit more complicated when you do a filmout, then you would have to render it to dpx in a 2:1 pixel aspect ratio. I guess that's what they ment with 2:1.
 
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