October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Karl H]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for getting back to me, I'm glad I asked the question. Are you saying that I would need to wait until I had bought Epic first before I could sell my Red One?

I'm just trying to understand what I need to do, to keep my place. I do need to be able to sell my accessories to afford the upgrade, and while I could do them all individually, some of them I don't think I'd be able to sell unless they came with the kit (things like the base production kit, old LCD, cheeseplates etc have much more chance selling with the Red One).

What would you actually need from us the day we upgrade? physical proof we still have the camera, or just the serial number still being registered to the owner on your system? As far as I knew there was no way a new owner could take your place unless they paid a transfer fee.

Thanks again, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Brains have internet connectivity built in. Firmware upgrades will be incredibly easy.. no matter what brain you have.

For Traditional upgrades via CF cards, they will be brain specific.

Wow, cool ! Then can we use the touch screen to surf on Reduser ?:biggrin5:

But seriously, internet connectivity might open a world of possibilities...
Remote control, ability to quickly send stills to a server, firmware fixes, track your camera GPS position, anti-theft features (like being able to block the camera remotely, a bit like the iPhone does with MobileMe), low res internet streaming, and probably many more things...

 

[James Press]

How is that?
Basically what I'm saying is that you can either sell your RED with official ownership transfer registered and paid for with RED, and thus lose your serial number and your place in line.
Or you could find some kind of grey area, like someone is already proposing in the sales section of this forum, where you're selling your camera without official transfer, in order to still be eligible for stage 2.
But that seems a dangerous option, as the trade-in options may still very well change, as they have just done on the 30th.
The safest bet is obviously keeping your Red One until the actual trade in. That's certainly what I'll be doing.

Steven-Marc--not your post--the previous question to which you were responding. I think your post, and your elaboration is sensible, if not likely. I was just a bit shocked I suppose to read that someone could think they could sell their camera and still be eligible for this incredible upgrade opportunity--especially when their reason for selling it (as they publicly advertise) is for financial gain at the expense of Red, the party providing the opportunity.

But I accept I could well be missing something...hence my use of the adjective "odd".:rolleyes5:

EDIT: indeed I was missing something, which Jeff has now clarified. Again, no offense intended.

 

[Karl H]

Ah ok Jim, you just answered that, sorry.

So the danger is a new owner could register the camera with you, and be eligible for the upgrade instead.

That's a shame, I wrongly assumed because the deadline had now passed that new owners wouldn't be able for the epic upgrade anyway.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

That's a shame, I wrongly assumed because the deadline had now passed that new owners wouldn't be able for the epic upgrade anyway.

Only if they buy a new Red One. They could still buy an older one and as Jim said, register and pay transfer of title. Then you're in like Flynn. If you could find someone willing to opt out.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Steven-Marc--not your post--the previous question to which you were responding. I think your post, and your elaboration is sensible, if not likely. I was just a bit shocked I suppose to read that someone could think they could sell their camera and still be eligible for this incredible upgrade opportunity--especially when their reason for selling it (as they publicly advertise) is for financial gain at the expense of Red, the party providing the opportunity.

But I accept I could well be missing something...hence my use of the adjective "odd".:rolleyes5:

Oh right, well I guess we had the same reaction.

I do however understand that private owners who haven't made a ROI on their Red One would be trying to find ways to bring down the price of upgrading as much as possible. Epic sounds like such an awesome system that you'd want to find any possible way not to miss it!

 

[George Butterfield]

Epic sounds like such an awesome system that you'd want to find any possible way not to miss it!

Me ... I'm selling my vette.

 

[Karl H]

James

With all respect, this is not for financial gain. I paid a lot for my Red, and will be paying even more to upgrade to epic. I don't have that money right now. I assumed because we were first adopters we got the lucky shot at a discounted upgrade. I thought that was marked to the owner of the camera, and not the camera itself. You know, for taking the leap with them in the first place and working with a lot of beta accessories and problem builds. I thought it was the individual who earned the bonus, not the camera specifically.

However Jim has now stated the rules, and that's that.

I'm not happy with you saying it's at Red's expense. How did you work that out? It makes no financial difference to them at all. Why should they care whether I sell my Red One camera after Epic is delivered to my home, or a month before it arrives? The camera is marked as executed and upgraded, and Red get exactly the same amount of money from the customer in either case. They get no extra money whether I sell my camera before or after I upgrade!?

If I cant sell it now I'll have to do it after I get Epic, that's ok if that's the rules stated; but obviously the Red One has more resell value today than it will when Epic comes out, so the difference is to the customer only and not Red.


EDIT : Sorry James, I see you've edited your post.

For the record I think the offers are great too, and I'm only exploring my possible options.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

But seriously, internet connectivity might open a world of possibilities...
Remote control, ability to quickly send stills to a server, firmware fixes, track your camera GPS position, anti-theft features (like being able to block the camera remotely, a bit like the iPhone does with MobileMe), low res internet streaming, and probably many more things...

I don't know about blocking the camera - if somebody stole your camera and it still worked, they might try to sell it (and then you could get it back eventually if it needed a service). If it was remotely blocked, they might just throw it away or pull it apart and sell the parts.

Maybe tracking is a better idea. Or a message that says something like "Board 2A is damaged and requires urgent repair. Please take camera to a service centre immediately" to try and get them to send it in.

 

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

It would be nice if a camera transmits its serial number when getting online. You register your cam as stolen with RED and they (automatic?) forward you the IP address.
Might be useful?

Or, one step further: My Epic transmits its IP address whenever being in a WAN via email to me. If I know the IP address of my Epic during a rental I could provide some remote debugging.

Jochen

 

[Nils Ruinet]

I don't know about blocking the camera - if somebody stole your camera and it still worked, they might try to sell it (and then you could get it back eventually if it needed a service). If it was remotely blocked, they might just throw it away or pull it apart and sell the parts.

Maybe tracking is a better idea. Or a message that says something like "Board 2A is damaged and requires urgent repair. Please take camera to a service centre immediately" to try and get them to send it in.

You're right, that's the risk with blocking the camera. However, if Red advertised this feature loud enough, people would probably know that the camera can be locked if it's stolen (and consequently hasn't any resale value), and then maybe people wouldn't steal it in the first place...:001_unsure:
Anyway, the remote GPS tracking feature would definately be cool.
The false error message could be an idea too. Although I'm not sure a thief would bring it in for repairs neither...

 

[Stephen Gentle]

The false error message could be an idea too. Although I'm not sure a thief would bring it in for repairs neither...

I guess it depends both on how well you sell the pretend error (you could add corruption to the image on the display and in the recorded image, for example) and how stupid the thief is...

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Just got back from holiday and read all posts all day... Nice thread! I'm super impressed with Stage 2 option! It's really crazy, get 2 cameras for nearly the price of a R1 body alone! All this past year I got prepared to kiss my R1 goodbye... Seems like we have an option to remain together after all... Hats down to Jim and all, you guys are just world class... :coolgleamA:

 

[Stephen Strangways]

Personally I would use screw on filters to maintain the light weight and mobility of the setup - that's assuming that the RE lenses will be threaded for screw ons. I think it would be a major mistake by RED not to have screw-on filter threading on the new RE Lenses.

Jarred has stated that the 2/3" fixed lens will be threaded for filters:

Yes... 77mm.

So I think the chances are good for the RE lenses to also be threaded.

Personally, what I really want to have confirmed now is a hood! A common run n' gun setup for me is Canon lenses with screw on filters and the lens hood from Canon.

I've used a 2/3" stills camera, and the hood they made for the 9-36mm lens was rather long, and wonderfully effective:

 

[Antony M]

Brains have internet connectivity built in. Firmware upgrades will be incredibly easy.. no matter what brain you have.

For Traditional upgrades via CF cards, they will be brain specific.

Hmmm. My notebook PC has intenet connectivity built-in too.

But trying to connect to the internet with it only works at a few locations!!!

Are you suggesting that we will need to take the Epic to close to a wireless hub in order to upgrade?
And how do you enter the security code for the wireless network into the Epic?

Or have I misunderstood what you are suggesting?

 

[Nils Ruinet]

I guess it depends both on how well you sell the pretend error (you could add corruption to the image on the display and in the recorded image, for example) and how stupid the thief is...

Well, that might definately be an option to consider...

 

[Stuart English]

Firmware updates

Firmware updates

Are you suggesting that we will need to take the Epic close to a wireless hub in order to upgrade?

Or have I misunderstood what you are suggesting?

Yes, you misunderstood. That is not what we mean

 

[Steven Caesare]

Only RED Team can confirm things we speculate about. Yes, that was my opinion, and that's why I put an "IMO" at the beginning of the original sentence.

{SNIP}

.

Thanks for re-iterating, Steve. I know you put "IMO" in front of your, but others had apparently interpreted it as "news", so it may have been missed.

I think that serveral of your estimates are likely, and would be welcome developments if they turn out to be accurate.

-sc

 

[Stuart English]

REcord format

REcord format

In still frame shooting mode, will Epic save single images as R3d files? Or will you adopt the DNG format for RAW stills?

In both Movie and Stills, the new DSMC camera's primary record mode is REDCODE RAW. This delivers the highest image quality.

As with RED ONE, other file formats can be created, if required, by transcoding in software e.g using REDCINE-X or by other means.

 

[Billy Gedney]

8 channels (4 xlrs) plus headphone return would be quite a snake with AES/EBU.

An alternative would be Lightpipe: 8 channels of 24bit/48KHz in a fiber cable. Very common in the audio world. Self timing. No need for a seperate WC out. Cable lenght might be an issue though.

What WOULD be nice would be a little audio safeguard:

A compressor / limiter!

Although 24 bit has a nice safety reserve built into it, I´ve seen mixerless on board RED One audio screwed up because of clipping. Happens to the best of us. Suddenly audio levels during a take are much hotter than expected. Audio - and take - unusable.

Hardware knobs on the Pro i/o module are a good step in the right direction (I´ve read it somewhere - hope I was not dreaming). Providing a bare bones compressor / limiter would be even better.

Jochen

I'd think uou'd have issues running fiber on a sets. It is too delicate. Ya, A limiter would be a rad software upgrade. What would really be rad, would be a VST, RTAS, TDM or AU plugin host for the audio, and allow people to bring their own limiters in. Logic pro has this really nice Adaptive Limiter I'd love to use in the real world. - Jarred, Stuart.

I think if you need 8 Channels of AES/EBU, then haven't you already broken the bank on preamps and converters then adding a sound devices recorder or something else along those lines isn't a stretch?

I see if in an application where two channels of pristine audio is what is needed, and an Apogee Mini Me would do the trick.

But the idea is also where you could track 6 channels of audio too (what? 2 on the brain, 2 on the base I/O and two digital on the PRO I/O). Yes, on the Cine side of life, I'm not sure that many channels is needed, but on an ENG/EFP application, the more audio i can load my cameras up with, just means I don't need to bring in other equipment to record audio.

Billy